1954 barrel swap ?

[ABL1111]

Hi - newbie here.

Dad gave me a beautiful 870 Wingmaster years ago that I've kept but not used. It was manufactured in 1954 and is in just about new condition. I'm not an upland hunter - but am an avid deer hunter. Typically I use rifles, but when I use a shotgun its been another hand-me-down, an Ithaca Deer Slayer.

Sorry for the history lesson.

I have a question. Is my 870 a candidate for swapping barrels for either a rifled or smooth barrel, shorter, deer hunting barrel ?

Thank you.

[Synchronizor]

Sure, I don't think Remington had come out with any of the special 870 variants in the 1950s, so assuming yours is a 12ga, you can swap other standard 12ga barrels onto it. If it's a 16ga, you can still change barrels, but you won't have as many choices. If it's a '50s-era 20ga, you'll need to look on the used market for early large-frame 20ga 870 barrels. Newer small-frame 20ga barrels won't fit.

Newer 12ga barrels may not have a magazine cap detent in the barrel guide ring, since Remington uses a different internal-ratchet cap retention system on current hunting shotguns. You can still install those barrels on your gun, but you should use a wave washer to keep your mag cap from coming loose under recoil.

[ABL1111]

Thank you for the quick reply. I am by no means a ' gun pro ', although I have pulled several guns apart to inspect, clean, lubricate - bolt, lever - but never a Remington and never a shotgun. With proper directions, assuming the necessary tools required are 'standard', or, I can purchase them, I can complete just about any tasks.

It is a 12 gauge. It's great news that the barrel is removable and I can swap it for a shorter length.

A few further questions:

" you can swap other standard 12ga barrels onto it."
Does this mean rifled and smooth ? What are the ideal deer barrel length/ model # for this gun ?

" Newer 12ga barrels may not have a magazine cap detent in the barrel guide ring, since Remington uses a different internal-ratchet cap retention system on current hunting shotguns. You can still install those barrels on your gun, but you should use a wave washer to keep your mag cap from coming loose under recoil."
So, My current barrel/ gun has this mag cap feature ? Newer 870 barrels and guns do not use this ? If I want to use a newer barrel, then I'd have to use a wavy washer - where and what does this washer do exactly ? Or, from research, it seems a new barrel could have a mag cap detent machined in ?

[TexasArmor84]

Hi - newbie here.

Dad gave me a beautiful 870 Wingmaster years ago that I've kept but not used. It was manufactured in 1954 and is in just about new condition. I'm not an upland hunter - but am an avid deer hunter. Typically I use rifles, but when I use a shotgun its been another hand-me-down, an Ithaca Deer Slayer.

Sorry for the history lesson.

I have a question. Is my 870 a candidate for swapping barrels for either a rifled or smooth barrel, shorter, deer hunting barrel ?

Thank you.

Let’s see some pictures PLEASE of the Wingmaster


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Synchronizor]

A few further questions:

" you can swap other standard 12ga barrels onto it."
Does this mean rifled and smooth ? What are the ideal deer barrel length/ model # for this gun ?

"Standard" means it's a 12ga barrel meant to go on a normal 12ga receiver with a base 4-round mag tube. Some special 12ga 870 variations have 3-round or 6-round mag tubes, and can only use special barrels meant specifically for them (the main difference is the location of the barrel guide ring). Pretty much all slug barrels are meant for standard 4-round receivers, so you should be fine there. The ideal barrel will depend on whether you want to shoot smoothbore or spin-stabilized slugs, whether you want an optic or open sights, and what you're looking for in terms of weight/portability vs. stability/repeat-ability.

" Newer 12ga barrels may not have a magazine cap detent in the barrel guide ring, since Remington uses a different internal-ratchet cap retention system on current hunting shotguns. You can still install those barrels on your gun, but you should use a wave washer to keep your mag cap from coming loose under recoil."
So, My current barrel/ gun has this mag cap feature ? Newer 870 barrels and guns do not use this ? If I want to use a newer barrel, then I'd have to use a wavy washer - where and what does this washer do exactly ? Or, from research, it seems a new barrel could have a mag cap detent machined in ?

An 870 from the 1950s should have the older-style magazine cap detent to keep the cap from backing off (unless it's fallen out, which sometimes happens). Newer hunting 870s (which a slug barrel would be intended for) use a simpler internal-ratchet cap retention system with a plastic spring retainer that locks down a different type of magazine cap. These new spring retainers need to lock into a dimpled mag tube though, which your gun wouldn't have. If you're buying a used barrel, there may or may not be a detent, depending on the specific barrel & when it was made.

If you get a barrel that doesn't have a detent, you can use it on your gun and with your current magazine cap just fine, but the cap will tend to back off under recoil, since there's nothing really securing it. You can simply shoot the gun that way without doing anything, but you'll need to occasionally check and re-tighten the cap. You can also have the barrel's guide ring drilled and a detent staked into it, but that's gunsmith work that you'll need to pay for. A wave washer costs $3, and is a much simpler and easier solution. Again, see this video for a visual explanation.

[ABL1111]

I will send out some pix within the day or so - taking the pix is always the easy part - getting them to post is usually the challenge.

Already having a smooth-barreled shotgun - the Ithaca DeerSlayer, with a deer barrel and a longer, bird barrel option,

I'm looking for advice on whether my 1954, 870 in 12 gauge makes a good deer gun and, is having a rifled barrel worth the extra $ ? I'm not looking to shoot beyond 100 yards but am looking for better accuracy. What noticeable differences would I expect from a smooth vs rifled barrel ? I'm assuming the rifled barrel can shoot rifled slugs and Sabots ( which I have zero experience with ).

And, if I looked for a rifled deer barrel for the 870, 18-20" long with iron sights - who makes a quality product for this ? And what model #'s ? I saw that Mossberg makes rifled barrels, but they are 26" - too long for a deer/brush gun.

Thx.

[Synchronizor]

I'm looking for advice on whether my 1954, 870 in 12 gauge makes a good deer gun and, is having a rifled barrel worth the extra $ ? I'm not looking to shoot beyond 100 yards but am looking for better accuracy. What noticeable differences would I expect from a smooth vs rifled barrel ? I'm assuming the rifled barrel can shoot rifled slugs and Sabots ( which I have zero experience with ).

Your 870 will make as good a slug gun as any other. The 870 is a quick-change barrel design; it's meant to be a gun with which you can change barrels, stocks, and accessories to suit it for pretty much any application.

So-called "rifled" slugs are meant for smoothbore barrels. The "rifling" was originally meant to spin the projectile in the air, which didn't really work, but the feature is retained because it helps the slug squeeze through chokes more easily. Spin-stabilized slugs are the ones that need a rifled barrel in order to achieve stable flight (or at least a rifled choke tube, though that may not be enough to stabilize some slugs). Spin-stabilized slugs are commonly referred to as "sabot slugs", but there are also some slugs meant for smoothbore barrels that use sabots.

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing.

Anyway, spin-stabilized slugs generally have improved external and terminal ballistics compared to smoothbore slugs. This means a flatter trajectory, better precision & shot-to-shot repeat-ability, and a longer effective range. Basically, you can shoot smaller groups and reach out farther. These are all good things, but as you noted, a rifled barrel, fancy ammo, and a scope (if you want one) are going to add up. If you're going to be shooting inside 100 yards with iron sights, you may find that a smoothbore barrel with quality smoothbore slugs will be sufficient for your purposes.

And, if I looked for a rifled deer barrel for the 870, 18-20" long with iron sights - who makes a quality product for this ? And what model #'s ? I saw that Mossberg makes rifled barrels, but they are 26" - too long for a deer/brush gun.

Remington themselves will sell you 20" fully-rifled barrels with either adjustable rifle sights, or a cantilever scope base. They also sell 18" & 20" smoothbore barrels with rifle sights. You could also check to see what 870 barrels are currently offered by Carlson's and Hastings.

[ABL1111]

You have been more than helpful !

That you for taking the time to explain ! My knowledge just grew exponentially.

My Dad gave me a bunch of guns when he decided his days of climbing mountains, freezing, dragging a dead animal a mile or more, and getting up early were for younger men. Since then I have been trying to hunt and collect venison with each gun - the 870 having the longer barrel kept me from this - but now, if I can find a 20" rifled, iron sight barrel for the right price ( I believe Remington wants after shipping close to $375-400 !? ) - I will try to get some venison with this gun...

I will keep my eyes opened !

[Synchronizor]

It sounds like something like this is what you're looking for:



It's a factory Remington 20" fully-rifled barrel with adjustable rifle sights and polished Wingmaster bluing. It has a 3" chamber, and I don't know if your 870 is a Magnum model or not, but this barrel will also work on a non-magnum receiver. Just stick with 2.75" or shorter shells for reliable function.

If you want to save some money and don't mind a cosmetic mismatch, the Express version of this barrel (which will have a matte finish instead of polished bluing) is less expensive and may be easier to find.

[ABL1111]

I think I just stepped in 'poo' - in a good way.

I bought a 'used' Remington 19 1/2" fully rifled barrel ( measured from the receiver to barrel end ) for $100. It looks almost new, if not new. I'm not sure if it's considered an 18" or 20". It has iron sights, which is what I wanted. And, it has the cap detent. It's bluing is perfect and the rifled barrel looks, well, new! I took my gun to the gentleman who was selling the barrel to make sure it fit. It did, perfectly and we loaded and ejected (2) rounds... Everything 'looks' right. Not sure if that's a naive thought - time will tell.

I was concerned about the barrel options for this 1954 Wingmaster as the more common Express or Magnum barrels seemed like they would not fit. When I called Remington, they offered (2) options; an iron sight and a cantilever. Both, upwards of $350-$400 delivered.

There is no model # on this barrel. It is a Remington though. Now I have to learn about Sabots and or the other options I have for rifled shotgun ammo. Any suggestions ? Also, the front sight is a tiny white dot - not sure if there's another option.