Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Tactical, combat, military, law enforcement and home defense use of a Remington 870 shotgun.
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soapftw
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Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by soapftw » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:42 am

Hey yall I'm new to the forum. I was wondering if there is some practical uses for the new Tac-14 870. Or if any of you guys have an opinion on it.

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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by Synchronizor » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:09 pm

Pistol grips suck for home defense. They're not useless, but as a fighting tool, they're flat-out inferior to the same shotgun with a proper stock. This video from InRange TV demonstrates the downsides pretty well. Some folks may find the bird's-head grip on the TAC-14 to be more comfortable than a more typical pistol-style grip, but that isn't going to fix the fundamental drawbacks of the stock-less shotgun concept. Besides, having had personal experience with a variety of pistol grips, I would say that there are normal pistol grips that are perfectly comfortable to shoot with for an able-bodied user; and they would let you get a 6+1 or 7+1 capacity in a package that's the about same length as the TAC-14, which will only hold 4+1, or 5+1 if you add a 1-round extension.

The 870 TAC-14 is a range toy gun, and that's fine. Fun is a totally legitimate reason to own a particular gun, if that's worth the money to you. As a fighting tool, it's not the 870 to choose.

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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by John A. » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:37 pm

I'm glad there are choices.

There have been pistol grip only shotguns for a while now. They're not my personal favorite, but they are handy for point/shoot at close ranges. Truck guns. Grab/n/go bags. Hiking with a scabbard on your pack or on your atv.

Would be ideal in very tight areas too.

Personally, for those, I think I would lean toward the Mossberg 20 gauge model, simply due to the safety location and the slightly reduced recoil over 12's.
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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by DaveC » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:24 am

Not much to add. I'd certainly agree that a shotgun stock is almost always a better choice, and if space and tight confines are a real issue, a folding stock might be worth consideration.

The PGO shotgun would really require ample practice. Also, there are real limitations to it. Very much a "niche" role, namely, if one has to consider very, very confined spaces like a "tubular assault" in a narrow hallway, apartment building, vehicle, etc.

One of the issues is how to effectively wield it. One technique, which relies on "point shooting" skills being assiduously and systematically cultivated, but is at variance with the "Dude abides" bathrobe scenario on inrangeTV [ :roll: :) ] is to have the firing hand, wrist locked, forearm straight, holding the shotgun straight across the upper chest area while standing in a bladed type boxer's stance. The shotgun is canted about 30 degrees, give-or-take, with the ejection port (for shotguns with side ejection) about six inches or so under your chin while you look over your support arm shoulder at the target. The support arm is held against the body as though you were shooting off-hand, with the elbow approx. 90 degrees. You cannot use the sights in this position, but you look over the muzzle--which will be quite close to you. Again, this method, which was once instructed for extremely close quarters by some police departments, including in the state of Ohio, relies on point shooting. An "aimed" shot could be taken by raising the weapon up and pushing it forward such that the support arm is straight out-- a bit like modern carbine techniques--so that the eye can sight down the receiver and barrel using the front bead. As unpleasant as it may be to bring up, if an immediate threat attempts to rush in while using this method, the trigger may be pulled, or, in extremis, the shotgun or "non-NFA firearm" can be used for a bayonet-thrust style of presentation, to strike the solar plexus, sternum, or even chin. If the person is armed and one expects an immediate threat to her/his life, the trigger can also be pulled in conjunction. If the arms reach full extension and the baton-type strike was not delivered, the trigger remains under the finger and could still be pulled should the situation call for that. Obviously, if a shotgun is introduced into a defensive situation, one must be absolutely prepared to use it. No amount of bluster or threat can be relied upon. On the other hand, police departments long recognized that shotguns do, in fact, have a high intimidation factor, which is one of the many reasons--being cheap was another salient rationale--they were issued, and indeed so remain.

In my own case, I live in an old so-called "shotgun shack": old, built in the 1920s or 1930s, twelve feet wide, and about 600 square feet! So for that reason, I've long been interested in exceedingly short HD weapons. For now, I've got my 870 with an 18" barrel and a youth-sized pistol-grip butt-stock from Choate. But next week some time, I'll go pick up one of the Mossberg 20-gauge versions and check it out at the range facility I have access to. As with any weapon shorter than one's hands and arms care has to be taken to avoid "getting in front" of the muzzle. I'm sure you'll have seen cases where people with pistol-grip "bull-pup" shotguns have really done themselves violence... KelTec KSGs, etc. etc.

Anyhow, good luck with your evaluation and determination on whether one is right for you...
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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by DaveC » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:41 am

PS: An Italian ammunition supplier Nobel Sport makes a 2-1/4" shot shell with six 00 buck "LG/SG" pellets (8.3mm each, .32 cal.) at a bit over 1300fps. I'm certainly no math and engineering whizz kid, but it seems to me such a load has about the same muzzle energy at close range as the old--very, very old-- Swiss .41RF rifle cartridge from the 1869 Vetterli bolt-action rifle... :geek: :!:

The Mexican ammo firm Águila makes the so-called "mini-shells" that are 1.75" long, but these would require modification to work properly in any shotgun except maybe the Winchester 1200 series.

Each of these would extend the magazine capacity, albeit for the former 12-ga. ammo, by just a single round.

There are a whole range of 12-ga. loads, many more than for any other gauge, and many low-recoil varieties can be obtained. 20-gauge loads are quite limited: No. 4 buck or No. 3 buck in the 2-3/4" shells, and in the 3-inch magnums an 18 pellet No. 2 buckshot. Some more exotic ammo suppliers make larger buckshot in 20 gauge but in my limited experience, these are a bit hard to find.
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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by Synchronizor » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am

John A. wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:37 pm
There have been pistol grip only shotguns for a while now. They're not my personal favorite, but they are handy for point/shoot at close ranges. Truck guns. Grab/n/go bags. Hiking with a scabbard on your pack or on your atv.

Would be ideal in very tight areas too.
Full shoulder stocks might be an issue if you have a special need to store or deploy your shotgun in a very tight space space. But as DaveC said, this is where you should look at a folding stock rather than just a pistol grip. You keep the small form factor and tight-spaces maneuverability, but you can also take a second to make it a much more practical weapon.
DaveC wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:41 am
PS: An Italian ammunition supplier Nobel Sport makes a 2-1/4" shot shell with six 00 buck "LG/SG" pellets (8.3mm each, .32 cal.) at a bit over 1300fps. I'm certainly no math and engineering whizz kid, but it seems to me such a load has about the same muzzle energy at close range as the old--very, very old-- Swiss .41RF rifle cartridge from the 1869 Vetterli bolt-action rifle...
I think those (or a related Italian load) are carried by Cabelas here in the States, under the Herter's brand. Six 00B pellets at a rated velocity of 1250 FPS in a roll-crimped 2 1/4" shell (I think they're a bit longer than 2 1/4" in reality, but it's not like there are many 2 1/4"-chambered shotguns where that would cause an issue). They're just long enough to run reliably in a standard 12ga 870, and they can allow an extra round in some mag setups - including the base 4+1 tube (though you may have to do some tweaks like removing or shaving the spring retainer). Very low recoil too, with about 3/4 of an ounce of lead. Six .33-caliber holes is nothing to sneeze at, and the featherlight recoil & potential extra round could make this a good defensive choice for certain folks.
DaveC wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:41 am
The Mexican ammo firm Águila makes the so-called "mini-shells" that are 1.75" long, but these would require modification to work properly in any shotgun except maybe the Winchester 1200 series.
These do not function reliably in an 870. Among other potential problems, they're so short that they like to flip around in an 870's receiver before the carrier can align them, and no carrier mod will remedy that. They may be better in some other shotguns, but I have my doubts that any platform aside from a break-action will run them 100% reliably.

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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by John A. » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:31 pm

Synchronizor wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 am

Full shoulder stocks might be an issue if you have a special need to store or deploy your shotgun in a very tight space space. But as DaveC said, this is where you should look at a folding stock rather than just a pistol grip. You keep the small form factor and tight-spaces maneuverability, but you can also take a second to make it a much more practical weapon.
Most people are not going to take the time or expense to register a Form1 short barrel shotgun so they can use a stock on these guns.

While I agree that stocks are usually better for most things, I also realize that's not going to happen and much of the large appeal of the Tac14's and the Mossberg shockwaves is the lack of such requirements, and the lack of the legal ability to have a stock on the gun.
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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by Synchronizor » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:48 pm

John A. wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:31 pm
Most people are not going to take the time or expense to register a Form1 short barrel shotgun so they can use a stock on these guns.
No, but remember that the TAC-14 "firearm" still needs to conform to a 26" minimum length, which is why they use the birds-head grip to make up the length lost with the 14" barrel. I have no problem with the TAC-14 as a fun gun to own, but if someone needed an 870 to be a functional fighting tool and usable in tight spaces, I'd instead recommend a normal 870 with an 18" barrel and a typical vertical pistol-grip & folding stock. That would be just about as short as the TAC-14 when the stock is folded, and the longer barrel would provide more velocity and space for a +2 magazine extension.

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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by 50mercman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:34 pm

I would have to submit that the value of the Tac-14 is largely dependent on the shooter's training and experience. I carried a 14" short stocked 870 as an entry weapon for a few years. The short stock configuration was due to body armor that necessitated a very short LOP.

I acquired a Tac-14 a few months ago and have put a few hundred rounds through it. I'm quite comfortable with the weapon at this point and have added a Suarez +1 mag extension and quick sling. I've been shopping for a white light but haven't made that purchase at this time.

I will say that the Tac-14 has become my 'when things go bump in the night' tool.

Without proper training and experience, however, 'range toy' is an apt description, but that's true of any weapon. IMHO

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Re: Is the new Tac-14 practical for home defense or any other use?

Post by Banshee » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:01 pm

The TAC-14 wouldnt be my first choice for HD, I wouldn't feel under gunned with one.
The devil danced as he went down, in the hail of arrows comin' Out on the wild Montana ground, Custer died a-runnin'.

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