870 trigger assembly WITHOUT action bar latch?

[BillHoo]

I'm rebuilding a Remington 870 Wingmaster and I bought a Trigger plate assembly off eBay last year.

Finally got around to tinkering with it and I noticed, the trigger group does not have an Action Bar lock. Is this an older model? Is it safe to use?

Anyone know the history of the 870 trigger group design? Or could this possibly be from a diferent model or knock-off?

[Synchronizor]

All 870s have action bar locks, and that part is required for proper functioning. An 870 cannot fire out of battery due to how the firing pin and locking block interact; but the action bar lock does ensure you don't pull the action open on accident, and it's what actuates the trigger disconnect, preventing slamfires and misfires. So the action bar lock is required for safe and reliable operation. Plus, the action bar lock and hammer both rotate about the same pin, so if the action bar lock is missing, other parts may be missing as well.

If you suspect your trigger plate assembly has damaged or missing parts, don't try to use it in your gun until you can have it checked out and repaired by a gunsmith or other knowledgeable individual.

[BillHoo]

Thanks.

I'm actually suspecting this is not a trigger plate assembly originally for the 870.

It does not look like parts are missing. It looks like it was never designed/manufactured with an action bar lock.

Normally, the action bar lock sticks out of a slot near the trigger. This thing has no such slot.

I've found snippets online that the Remington 870 Trigger plate originated from the 1148 shotgun. There are hints that they are swappable. But I have not found confirmation of that.

Looking at photos of that shotgun, I do not see an Action Bar Lock, but I can't be sure. Does anyone have an 1148?

[Synchronizor]

Can you post a picture? It could be an 11-48 trigger plate assembly, or maybe a TPA from a similar semi-auto Remington like the 878 or 58. Design-wise these guns are siblings to the 870, so their trigger plates look very similar, and may even fit into an 870 receiver. However, these semi-auto shotguns use an action spring to hold the bolt closed instead of a lock, and their fore-ends are stationary. Even if their TPAs could function properly in an 870, there'd be nothing to keep the action from sliding open if you accidentally pulled back on the fore-end, or even just tilted the gun upward.

[BillHoo]

OK. I think it's an 11-48 or 1100 - though I've never seen those triggers. Just heard that they may fit and actually function in an 870 - though I have not had anyone confirm that.... and live to tell about it.

Hope you're not using a dial-up modem.....































This trigger drops right in and fits the 870 like it's made for it and I can rack the slide and cock the trigger. I have not run any rounds through it.

[Synchronizor]

It's definitely not an 1100 TPA, but it does seem to be from a semi-auto, judging by its disconnector. I'm pretty sure it's either from a Remington 11-48 or Model 58. These shotguns were very similar to the 870, so it's not surprising that the TPA will fit into an 870 receiver, but it probably won't function reliably for the reasons I talked about previously. Also, I can see in those pictures that the trigger disconnect system isn't put together properly, so in addition to the locking issues, you could get slamfires if you try to shoot your 870 with this TPA installed.

[BillHoo]

Thanks Sync!

I've hunted around for pics of the various TPAs and there is one posted on Ebay that is identical. It's listed as a Remington 11-48 "Mohawk" Trigger Plate Assembly with enlarged Safety.

I'm rather annoyed that the vendor had listed the one I purchased as a Remington 870. (I went back and checked my emails and receipts) Unfortunately it's well beyond the support guarantee of the vendor adn eBay.

At this point, I'm going to go back and restore my 870- wingmaster with the original action and receiver. Those guts are currently in a HD shotgun I made from Bullpups Unlimted.

I was able to cycle through some empty shells through the current Wingmaster build with the 1148 TPA. Seems pretty smooth. For kicks: I might experiment further by re-priming the spent shells to see if I can get it to fire with that TPA.

I'm still entertaining the idea of putting all of guts from this new build into my HD shotgun. From time to time the Action Bar on the Bullpups unlimited locks up on me and I have to disassemble it and depress the action bar latch and put it all back together again (PITA!). So, I'm thinking this 1148 TPA might be ideal for it. I may do extensive testing with empty (but primed) shells before I consider taking it to the range with live ammo.

New Year's Eve is a good excuse for making noice with empty/primed shells!

Happy New Year to All!

[BillHoo]

Sync,

Thanks again for pointing out the Trigger Disconnect system. I had a chance to tinker with it this evening and it make me think the vendor was being really unscrupulous not only with misrepresenting this 1148 TPA as an 870 TPA. But I think they purposefully configured the Trigger Disconnect in this fashion.

I reconfigured it the way it should be.

This is the way it was shipped to me:



In this incorrect configuration, someone like myself who is not intimate with the way the 870 TPA should look and work can install in a receiver and it would appear to work correctly. I would be able to rack the slide up and down, load a shell, pull the trigger and eject the spent casing, and load another one.

Also, I don't think the slide locks when when a round is in the chamber - I do recall that I had to really push the slide hard and fully forward before the trigger would work. There is the danger of the slide opening in the middle of firing. (I may put it back in this config to test if the slide locks with a round in the chamber).

With the corrected configuration:

In this setup, I can:
- Load the rounds into the mag tube
- I rack the slide and it locks. No action bar latch for me to open the action without pulling the trigger and letting the hammer fall. In this case, the first rack is an empty chamber.
- Second rack. A round is loaded in the chamber. Now, I'm committed to fire all the rounds left in the magazine tube. there is no way to empty the rounds without firing and pulling the trigger with each load.

By the fact that it locks up and won't let me eject without a trigger pull would have alerted the buyer that something was wrong here.

[BillHoo]

Hypothetically,

I'm wondering if all I need to buy is an action bar lock and use a dremel or some small rotating saw tool to cut a slot in the trigger plate to accomodate the action bar lock?



Currently shopping for another 870 TPA.

[BillHoo]

I got the new 870 Trigger Plate Assembly in the mail last night. Here it is pictured above the 1148 TPA that was mis-represented as an 870:





The new TPA has a plastic trigger guard, but I guess it's OK for my uses.

After installing it, I tested it with some empty shells to ensure it racks, ejects and fires properly. I was disappointed to find it does everything except fire!

Pulling the trigger doies not result in release of the hammer! Safety was not on! Action bar did not seem stuck.

I removed the TPA to examine it.

Looks like there was a 3mm excess of wire sticking from the action bar lock as seen in the photo below:


I simulated the downward pressure the bolt might have on it and that seemed to stop the trigger from releasing the hammer.

Taking a risk, I used wire cutters to trim the wire flush with the action bar lock and reassembled. Same problem!!!

Did some research online and found others who had a similar problem that was solved by tightening the slight nut.

I removed the nut and gently tapped the slide into the wood forearm. Then carefully tightened it all the way and backed out a little less than one turn.

Reassembled and everything works great now!

Aside from taking it to the range, I can say I successfully built a complete Remington 870 from the wooden stock and a wingmaster barrel.

Now, I think I'll take it all apart and reassemble the original Wingmaster and put the all the new parts into my Bullpups Unlimited HD shotgun.