Accuracy with slugs

[PapaMAS]

I have a bit of a head scratcher I can use some of your expertise figuring out.

I have an older 20 gauge 870 Express Magnum (iron bead sight) which I have fired primarily at targets from 25 yards or less. I use it for home defense so I want to get better with it. I was also starting to investigate shooting at longer ranges, just in case I ever need to send a big hunk of lead about a hundred yards. I figured I would get good at 25 yards, then 50, then 100.

Accuracy was acceptable for slugs and buckshot at within the house ranges, but at 25 yards I noticed some issues. For example, buck shot patterns did not have a good number of pellets within a 30" circle around the aimpoint and did not seem well-spread within it. Some brands of slug did not have much accuracy at all - some days I was lucky to hit the paper.

Now, it's possible I'm just not a very good shot with a shotgun. I don't think this is the case as I shoot very well with other types of firearms, and have shot 3" 5-shot groups with this shotgun at 25 yards with one brand of ammo (Herter's). Remington Slugger and other brands have had the poor results mentioned.

I recently replaced the improved cylinder choke to see if that would have any effect. I got much better patterning with 3-buck and 00-buck with the new choke (meaning, a pattern exactly what one would expect for that range), but have had mixed results with slugs. While at 25 yards all my slugs are now hitting the paper, almost all are hitting left of aimpoint. I fired several brands of slugs yesterday and almost all shots impacted 2" - 5" left of center. Slugs used were Remington Sluggers, Herter's Select, DUPO20, Federal Premium Truball, and Federal Powershok.

At 50 yards it was about the same only the two Federal types missed the target completely. That's somewhat distressing as those are marketed as being very accurate at 100 yards.

So, my question is, what might be the problem? I've already acknowledged it may be me, but unless someone is watching me shoot I don't know how to identify and correct what I might be doing not quite right. What else might cause slugs to all pull left? Could it be a bent barrel? If the barrel were bent to throw off slugs to the left why wouldn't I notice that before, and why would buckshot patterns improve with a new choke?

[DaveC]

You have 00 buck in a 20 gauge shell? Really? I've never seen 00 buck in 20-gauge.

As for slugs, some of them are designed essentially to fly like a shuttle-cock. So they're kind of "lobbed in" to the target. There are separate, rifled barrels for sabot slugs. Sabot slugs rely on a particular rate of twist, and when they exit the barrel, the plastic sabot falls away, leaving the higher-velocity--sometimes wasp-waisted--projectile to get to the target. If you use slugs designed for a rifled shotgun bore--i.e. a short range rifle--in a smooth bore barrel, you won't get very good results. Vice-versa with shotgun slugs designed for use in a smooth bore, e.g. Brennecke types in a rifled bore. So do make sure you've got the right kind of slugs to practice with.

I ran a 12-gauge smoothbore 18 1/2-in. cylinder bore shotgun with some "low recoil" Remington slugs and was disappointed with the results. I would think I had a handle on where to hold the simple bead sight, and it invariably would be wrong regardless of distance. So I'm not really enamored with those particular slugs from that company. Personally, I don't really worry about longer ranges for anything other than shooting for fun--muzzleloading, rifle shooting, high-power matches, vintage rifle-matches, marksmanship practice. Once I get into hunting, I'll use a rifle since I'm not in a shotgun-only-state (if I was, I'd get a 20-gauge with a rifled bore), but for defensive purposes, I'll stick with buckshot only.

[PapaMAS]

You have 00 buck in a 20 gauge shell? Really? I've never seen 00 buck in 20-gauge.

Yep, by Spartan. It's the first I have seen it, too. I found it at my local Academy and figured I would try a couple 20 shell boxes. Normally I load slugs and 3-buck for the self-defense. I understand some 12 gauge users split their loads between slugs and 00-buck for the same purpose.

I did not want to get a rifled barrel, partly because I would have to buy sabots, which are a bit more expensive than Foster type slugs. So, I am exploring what is possible for my shotgun in its current configuration. If I can't trust it past 50 yards I'll have to stick with my rifles for that.

[Synchronizor]

So, my question is, what might be the problem? I've already acknowledged it may be me, but unless someone is watching me shoot I don't know how to identify and correct what I might be doing not quite right. What else might cause slugs to all pull left? Could it be a bent barrel? If the barrel were bent to throw off slugs to the left why wouldn't I notice that before, and why would buckshot patterns improve with a new choke?

It could be that you're flinching and throwing your shots with the slugs. One way to check for this is to load up the magazine with a random order of live ammo and dummy shells or snap caps (maybe have a buddy do it for you), and then start shooting. When you get the unexpected "click", you should be able to tell if you're anticipating the recoil and jerking the gun off-target.

Apart from that, slugs and buckshot can be idiosyncratic when it comes to guns and chokes. Performance can be hard to predict, and sometimes you just have to experiment and find out what choke works best with a specific load in your particular gun. Buckshot can be the same way, especially in the smaller gauges, which don't always like big pellets.

Finding the right buckshot and slug loads that work well with both your gun and a common choke can be tough sometimes, especially if your sights aren't adjustable, so you may have to set some priorities. Is long-range accuracy with slugs an important element in your HD strategy? If so, you should be able to find some buckshot that patterns well enough for across-the-room work through a choke that your slugs like. Or is buckshot performance more important? Realistically, HD situations calling for 100-yard shots are extremely unlikely, and if you do need to make that kind of a shot, a rifle would probably be a better choice even if your shotgun was dead-on with slugs. If you want to shoot slugs for recreation or hunting, there's no reason you can't change chokes for those roles and put your buckshot choke back in for HD duty.

You have 00 buck in a 20 gauge shell? Really? I've never seen 00 buck in 20-gauge.

Yep, by Spartan. It's the first I have seen it, too. I found it at my local Academy and figured I would try a couple 20 shell boxes. Normally I load slugs and 3-buck for the self-defense. I understand some 12 gauge users split their loads between slugs and 00-buck for the same purpose.

The reason you rarely see 00B in 20ga shells is that it's a horrible fit for that bore size. 00B pellets are .33" in diameter, while a 20ga bore is only .615" wide. This means you can't even fit two 00B pellets side-by-side in a 20ga shell, they have to be stacked one at a time in a zig-zag pattern that wastes a ton of space and does not encourage good patterns. I'm guessing the pellet counts are very low in those loads. #4, 3, or 2 buckshot fit much better into 20ga shells with improved pellet counts, and those sizes still carry more than enough energy to penetrate all the way through a human attacker, especially during close-in HD shootings. I keep my 12ga loaded with #4 buck for HD, because a pellet in the aorta or CNS is lethal whether it's .24-caliber or .33-caliber, and I'd rather have 27 chances per shot to hit those critical structures than 9. Plus, the Remington #4B I use just patterns so well, I love it.

[DaveC]

The other day, on my quest for .22 I saw a less-toxic-more-eco-friendly "hevishot" No.4 buckshot load with 30 pellets. Here in the "Texas metropolis" I went from "Win-Lite" 00 buck to Fed. No. 4.

Good luck with the slugs!

[Kentactic]

In my experience with both slugs and shot, the slower it goes the better the results. I shoot reduced recoil Winchester ranger #00 because it produces a more desirable pattern. The hotter the load the more problems you run into with lead. Its relatively soft. So when the gun goes bang its like hitting it with a baseball bat. The harder you swing the more deformed the pellets become and then they dont fly as straight whivh opens up the patterns more. Slugs would likely fall under the same issues.

Keep in mind all slugs are not made equal. Pull a slug out of a federal round and a Remington. They'll appear similar or even identical in design but when you measure the diameter of them they might be very different. Some slugs are nearly the diameter of the bore of the gun. Then you try and jam it past a choke and you run into accuracy issues.

FYI I shoot Remington 1oz. Sluggers. They are a bit slower at 1560ft/sec and ive had great results. I can put rounds on an 8 inch plate under stress at 40 yards with confidence. I use an XS big dot front sight. The gun is an 18.5" cylinder bore.

[DaveC]

Thanks for the recommendation, KT! I'll give the Remington's 1-oz. a try. I've got some calipers, but the darn things are battery operated, and so far they won't work.

With your XS dot, is it the tipe that fixes over the bead, or is it some other type of installation? I"ve been thinking about adding one to my own 18=1/2" cyl. barrel.

[Kentactic]

Thanks for the recommendation, KT! I'll give the Remington's 1-oz. a try. I've got some calipers, but the darn things are battery operated, and so far they won't work.

With your XS dot, is it the tipe that fixes over the bead, or is it some other type of installation? I"ve been thinking about adding one to my own 18=1/2" cyl. barrel.

My front sight is the one you simply JB weld over the original bead. It works very well. Solid as a rock. I know because ive bashed it on rocks lol.

[mercman]

I get good Minute of Man grouping with slugs at 100 yds. About a 6-8" spread over 7 shots. I'm not using a standard barrel, though. I have a Vang Comp ported 18" barrel with rifle sights. That's off a bench. Offhand is much more 'hit and miss'. -

[PapaMAS]

The reason you rarely see 00B in 20ga shells is that it's a horrible fit for that bore size. 00B pellets are .33" in diameter, while a 20ga bore is only .615" wide. This means you can't even fit two 00B pellets side-by-side in a 20ga shell, they have to be stacked one at a time in a zig-zag pattern that wastes a ton of space and does not encourage good patterns. I'm guessing the pellet counts are very low in those loads. #4, 3, or 2 buckshot fit much better into 20ga shells with improved pellet counts, and those sizes still carry more than enough energy to penetrate all the way through a human attacker, especially during close-in HD shootings. I keep my 12ga loaded with #4 buck for HD, because a pellet in the aorta or CNS is lethal whether it's .24-caliber or .33-caliber, and I'd rather have 27 chances per shot to hit those critical structures than 9. Plus, the Remington #4B I use just patterns so well, I love it.

The 00B I have has only 9 pellets; the 3B has 20. I think I'll stick with the 3B even though the 00 shoots real nice.