Uh oh! Remington 870 used in Navy Yard Shooting

[hunterbob]

It's gotten bad enough that the DOD and DOS have placed a complete ban on any and all travel to Mexico for all military personnel barring official duty. And even then, we have to have explicit permission to travel from the SOUTHCOM Commander and have an escort.

Why would SOUTHCOM have to approve something outside his AOR?

[stratotrev]

It's gotten bad enough that the DOD and DOS have placed a complete ban on any and all travel to Mexico for all military personnel barring official duty. And even then, we have to have explicit permission to travel from the SOUTHCOM Commander and have an escort.

Why would SOUTHCOM have to approve something outside his AOR?

Oh sh*t, didn't even realize I typed that. I think I had them on my mind cause we just forwarded paperwork for a guy to go to Dom Rep. I had intended to type NORTHCOM. Screwed up my own damn MAJCOM. That's what I get for trying to reply to something at 2am on a mid post. I'll be more careful in reviewing what I actually type next time. Or not post at all.

[navyshooter]

I guess I assumed being just a guard at a Navy yard they would be merely carrying M-9s just like we do at the Air Force bases.

The gate guards on a Navy base carry the M9, unless there's a heighten threat warning, then you see Mossbergs and M4's

[DaveC]

Here is the FBI released CCTV footage as posted by the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24272319

[Zebra62]

The FBI "SPOKESWOMAN" needs to get her facts straight before she reports them. The report says he used his backpack to sneak the weapon into the building. If you take a good look at the backpack in the video, it doesn't show any deformation or protrusion an 870 Tactical would produce when stuffed into a backpack that small, even with a shortened stock and barrel. Measuring my Tactical from the magazine cap to approximately the same spot where he cut his stock off is roughly 30 inches. If he were able to remove the stock completely and reassemble in the toilet, he would only gain another four inches or so. Still way too much weapon to stuff into a 16 inch backpack. My Daughter has a backpack almost identical to his and it just won't fit.

My thought is he probably had the thing stuffed down his pants leg with the other end up into his shirt or jacket.

One thing I don't understand is why he cut off an inch of the barrel? Just doesn't add up.

I would also like to know how many people he shot with the 870 and how many with the stolen M9. Might tell a different story.

[Synchronizor]

That's a 2012 or later 12ga Express Tactical #25077 model. 6+1 capacity, 3" chamber, with the barrel cut down to about 17-17.5".

Progressive gun grabbers were so quick to dance in the blood of victims and get the "assault rifles" (what ever they are) banned, they didn't bother to wait and check the accuracy of the reports. Either that or they just made it up like they usually do. Turns out the sick A-hole who shot up the Washington Navy Yard didn't have an AR-15.

Early on, there were a lot of alleged reports of an AR-15 being used during the confusion, even from police and military sources, and it took a while to get things sorted out. The media can only report what it's told, and I can't blame them for that, but there's a huge difference between "there are unconfirmed reports that an AR-15 may have been involved" and this:

What did he have? A powerful and deadly Remington 870. Website Mail Online shockingly reports the weapon "could shoot 6 rounds without reloading."

Oh my God, six rounds. Nobody needs such a weapon for hunting. They should be banned. (sarcasm off)

Anybody expect any shotgun fallout from this tragic event?

Though I'm sure some will try, I doubt we'll see anything shotgun-specific. Semi-auto rifles with detachable magazines are scary-looking, and easy to misrepresent to folks who only really know them from movies and video games. Handguns actually do account for most of the gun violence in the US. Pump-action shotguns, however, are tougher to single out and vilify. Even to folks who have no experience with firearms, a pump shotgun isn't a machine gun or an untraceable plastic Glock, it's the thing grandpa goes hunting with. The modifications made to the 870 Alexis used were already illegal, and could have been done to any 870 model, so the anti-gun types wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they went after 18" HD shotguns. And he bought it legally after passing a background check, even though he had a history of mental problems and two prior incidents of firearm misuse.

I'm not holding my breath, but I really hope this incident brings attention to the real problems with the existing background check system. Forget gun shows, or Bubba and Pete trading a deer rifle for a carburetor; this guy, who attempted to evade police after shooting out someone else's tires in a neighborhood in a fit of anger, was able to fill out all the paperwork, pass a background check, and legally buy a firearm. Gun nuts and hoplophobes alike should be able to agree that that shouldn't happen. The background check system isn't able to access the proper information, and it's not even receiving the funding that was approved for it. Similar holes enabled the Virginia Tech shooting in 2007. Legislation that targeted those gaps passed Congress and was signed into law by Bush in early 2008, and met the approval of both the NRA and the Brady Campaign.

There also needs to be harsher penalties and better reporting for blatant firearm misuses; and if the military insists on their facilities being gun-free zones, they need to take responsibility for making them secure.

I hear that... I do cowboy action shooting and there's some guys from someplace near Corpus Christi that always win. These guys are fast. We kid them that full auto is not allowed by the SASS, as a joke commentary on their skill, but let me just say these guys would be really dangerous with their dated equipment and weapons if it came to that...

After the Sandy Hook shooting last year, it was reported that Lanza's mother had a Henry repeater in her gun collection. With no one to stop him, Lanza could have easily racked up just as many casualties with that lever gun as he did with the AR-15.

The FBI "SPOKESWOMAN" needs to get her facts straight before she reports them. The report says he used his backpack to sneak the weapon into the building. If you take a good look at the backpack in the video, it doesn't show any deformation or protrusion an 870 Tactical would produce when stuffed into a backpack that small, even with a shortened stock and barrel.

The spokesperson in the video never said the shotgun was in the backpack, and the official FBI report doesn't suggest that either. That seems to be just conjecture by whoever wrote the BBC article. It's hard to make out details in the video, but he probably was using the backpack in some way to help smuggle in the gun. It may have been partially in the pack, or the gun may have been under his clothes, and the pack was simply used to camouflage the shape or distract from it.

One thing I don't understand is why he cut off an inch of the barrel? Just doesn't add up.

He was probably just trying to get it as short as possible. Even an inch or two would make a difference, and the barrel on that particular 870 model doesn't have a choke.

[DaveC]

<sarcasm on> : "I dunno Synch, seems to me you think the laws should be enforced or some similar extremist position..."

Thanks for the info and the pictures. Also the clarification. As far as shotguns and the general public's reliance on media-derived and consumption-driven images and spectacle to "(mis)inform" about firearms and weapons, allow me to point out that very, very many urbanized and suburbanized families do not have grandparents "who hunt with an 870..." On the other hand, media generated portrayals of shotguns tend to greatly exaggerate their admittedly lethal capabilities... The psychopath who murdered all those people at the opening night of the Batman film in Colorado apparently/supposedly began shooting with an AR-15 of some kind had the rifle jam somehow, and then switched to a shotgun in the rampage.

I certainly entirely agree on the need to prevent mentally ill and psychologically disturbed persons from obtaining firearms and so on.

[dharbert]

Had the shooter used an assault-looking shotgun, such as a Saiga with a magazine or drum, or a Mossberg 500 or Maverick with a Sidewinder drum, then the media would really have had a field day and they'd be looking at banning shotguns and/or attachments for them as well.

It seems that these people will never figure out that guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are inanimate objects. They don't grow legs and run off and slaughter people. The problem is that we let far too many idiots who shouldn't be anywhere near a weapon purchase one. They can enact all the legislation that they want, if a criminal wants a gun, they are going to get a gun. They don't care if it's a "Gun Free Zone". You know what a Gun Free Zone means to a criminal? 100% guaranteed defenseless targets.

And then they include the violent video game aspect. I'm 36 and I've been playing violent video games all my life (Doom, Quake, Call Of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, etc....) and I never have, do not currently have, nor will I ever have, a desire to just go out and kill people at random. People who can't handle playing violent video games and somehow think they are real have mental problems to start with and definitely shouldn't be anywhere near a real firearm. It's not because of the video games. These people are mentally unstable to begin with.

[Bastard File]

Other than the senseless loss of precious lives to yet another mentally deranged individual. I also find it very sad that he just didn't put a single buckshot round in the chamber, put the muzzle in his mouth and pull the trigger!! Preferably out in the middle of nowhere so no one would be traumatized having to witness such. Sorry for my lack of sympathy! Having one of those days I guess!!

[xridgelinerx]

One thing I don't understand is why he cut off an inch of the barrel? Just doesn't add up.

He was probably just trying to get it as short as possible. Even an inch or two would make a difference, and the barrel on that particular 870 model doesn't have a choke.

I have an 870 Express Tactical. It does, in fact, have a cylinder bore "breaching choke". It screws in like any other choke, and the "breaching" part extends out beyond the end of the barrel.



I don't think he cut an inch off, I think he just unscrewed the breaching choke and either put in another standard choke or left the threads exposed inside the barrel. The exposed threads would get damaged the first time he fired it, but it's not like he was trying to take care of this thing.