Failure to feed

[Zebra62]

Hey guys. Got a strange question for 870 Tactcal owners, specifically those with model 25077.

It's been a couple of months since I have been able to get out to the range, so the only traveling my shotgun has done recently is in and out of the safe every night and morning. I do keep the magazine full, chamber empty, safety on even in the safe.

I had the opportunity today to get a few rounds downrange and I encountered a failure to feed the last round in the magazine. I was just plinking around at a cardboard box, cycling rounds through and counting as I went 1,2,3,4,5,click...Hmmm, must have miscounted. Reloaded magazine with 1,2,3,4,5...and the sixth one would not go in. So I shot at the box again 1,2,3,4,5,click. Definately a problem. Safety on, look into the breech and sure enough round #6 was still in the magazine. I flipped the carrier up and pressed the round with my thumb and felt no resistance at all as it slid forward about an inch before it contacted the mag spring. I thought at that time something must have become lodged in the mag tube.

I spread a towel across the tailgate of my truck, pulled the barrel off and removed the mag spring and follower. I am still using the OE orange plastic follower and original spring. I have had not problems with them after several hundred rounds until today. Looking through the tube I saw no obstruction and even put the follower back in and let it fall with gravity all the way through the tube. Hmmmm....So I reassembled feeling I had solved the problem.

As I went to reload again, something told me to look and I noticed the follower was not at the open end of the magazine as it should have been but was recessed about an inch. I pointed the muzzle skyward, and the follower fell into position and I heard the spring travel with it. Time to disassemble again. When I got the spring out (which did NOT spring out of the tube as it should) I set it on the tailgate beside the magazine tube and it was SHORT. Keep in mind this is the original spring and I have not modified it in any way.

When I first joined this forum, I asked a question about a spring being compressed for long periods of time lossing their springiness. Several members explained it would not happen and I was satisfied. Now it seems my spring is lossing its springiness.

I pulled the ends if the spring a bit to lengthen its coils and reassembled, reloaded and shot the box six times. I reloaded again and shot the box six times. Shotgun runs fine now.

Gypsy did not experience this with her 20 gauge, but we have a Choate +5 on hers and are using the spring Choate supplied. All 10 rounds in her magazine fed fine.

Has anyone else with the model 25077 experienced anything like this or is it possible I have done something to cause this myself?

[Synchronizor]

I think I remember coming across a few scattered reports of issues with the new #25077 springs. I've heard (and keep in mind this is 2nd- or 3rd-hand information) that the new #25077 870s with the single-piece magazine tubes have shorter springs than the older ones, which had the same standard +2/+3 springs used in all Remington factory extensions. If true, I could see them taking a set faster than the standard springs in 6+1 870s with extensions, especially since the new 6-round magazines don't prevent over-compression of the spring like the extensions do.

In any case, the "stretch and reinstall" trick is a temporary fix; if the spring is fatigued, the feeding problems will probably start happening again shortly. A new spring should fix the issue for you, and you already know how to order parts from Remington. They may even mail you a replacement for free if you explain what happened.

[Zebra62]

In any case, the "stretch and reinstall" trick is a temporary fix; if the spring is fatigued, the feeding problems will probably start happening again shortly. A new spring should fix the issue for you, and you already know how to order parts from Remington. They may even mail you a replacement for free if you explain what happened.

Thats a whole lot of what I was thinking, Synchro, and the concern is WHEN will it fail again. not if. I am a shell counter so I know exactly how many shells I have where. I suppose now would be a great time to brush up on my tactical reload technique.

I have already planned on giving Remington a call on Monday, schedule permitting, and see what they can do.

Will let you know what happens.

[Synchronizor]

If you're concerned about the trustworthiness of your HD shotgun, one thing you could try until you get the new spring is to place a plug in the front end of the magazine tube. Cut 3" or so off the end of a 7/8" wood dowel, and then install it between your magazine spring and spring retainer (you may have to groove the sides to get it past the dimples). You'll lose a round in magazine capacity, but the spring should have enough power to feed all 5 shells reliably without any misfeeds or jams.

[Zebra62]

If you're concerned about the trustworthiness of your HD shotgun, one thing you could try until you get the new spring is to place a plug in the front end of the magazine tube. Cut 3" or so off the end of a 7/8" wood dowel, and then install it between your magazine spring and spring retainer (you may have to groove the sides to get it past the dimples). You'll lose a round in magazine capacity, but the spring should have enough power to feed all 5 shells reliably without any misfeeds or jams.

I am a bit concerened, but not in a way some would imagine. I still trust My HD shotgun to function even in its slightly debilitated state. I had thought about some sort of plug as you described but decided against it. I currently only have five shells in the magazine and when I start firing rounds, I will only count those five then reload. Gypsy is aware of the fault with mine and knows if needed she will need to take up a little slack from my side of the team. Plus, I do still have my Mossy Cruiser and Dad's A-5 for additional support if required.

[Zebra62]

OK, so I called Remington this morning.

According to the rep I spoke with, the springs WILL lose tension if left compressed for an exteded period of time longer than three or four months. In my case it has only been two months. The rep seemed to be very knowledgable and experienced claiming to have been an armorer in the Army and running into this problem many times. I have no reason to doubt his claim. His recommendation was to load only four or five rounds into the magazine when stored to prevent excess compression of the spring. He also recommended to at least cycle all six rounds through the shotgun a couple times a month I can't get out to the range and then leave the magazine empty for a day before reloading. He explained his typical fix when he was in the Army was to stretch the spring back out the way I did last Saturday.

I will take his advice and see how it goes a couple more months down the road.

[Vitaly]

OK, so I called Remington this morning.

According to the rep I spoke with, the springs WILL lose tension if left compressed for an exteded period of time longer than three or four months. In my case it has only been two months. The rep seemed to be very knowledgable and experienced claiming to have been an armorer in the Army and running into this problem many times. I have no reason to doubt his claim. His recommendation was to load only four or five rounds into the magazine when stored to prevent excess compression of the spring. He also recommended to at least cycle all six rounds through the shotgun a couple times a month I can't get out to the range and then leave the magazine empty for a day before reloading. He explained his typical fix when he was in the Army was to stretch the spring back out the way I did last Saturday.

I will take his advice and see how it goes a couple more months down the road.

Zebra, thank you for valuable information!

[Kentactic]

Here's my springs length after 2 years and 5 months of being fully loaded (6 rounds). The spring is all the way against the follower at the bottom of the tube in this picture.



I would never try to stretch the spring out by hand or down load my gun to help it if its defective. After 2 months it lost that much tension? Definitely a spring manufacturing issue of some kind. Heat treatment or what have you.

[SignessSG]

Here's my springs length after 2 years and 5 months of being fully loaded (6 rounds). The spring is all the way against the follower at the bottom of the tube in this picture.



I would never try to stretch the spring out by hand or down load my gun to help it if its defective. After 2 months it lost that much tension? Definitely a spring manufacturing issue of some kind. Heat treatment or what have you.

So what length past the tube are we looking at here? I just put a new Nordic extension on my 870, and went with the manufacturer's recommendation of 16" past the tube extension for the spring length to start (at the longest). I've read posts of people going as low as 12". Anyway, took it shooting last weekend, and it fed and ejected flawlessly. I figure if it ain't broken, don't fix it; but, it concerns me a little that that much length may prematurely wear out the spring from over-tension. No problems loading, feeding, or ejecting though. Ran like butter. I don't really want to start hacking the spring down to find a failure point....would just need to go get another damned spring. I'm also running Nordic's teflon-coated red aluminum follower.

I suppose I should add that my 870P is a 20" barrel, so the mag tube is 4 +3 with the Nordic on there for 7 in the tube total.

[Synchronizor]

So what length past the tube are we looking at here? I just put a new Nordic extension on my 870, and went with the manufacturer's recommendation of 16" past the tube extension for the spring length to start (at the longest). I've read posts of people going as low as 12". Anyway, took it shooting last weekend, and it fed and ejected flawlessly. I figure if it ain't broken, don't fix it; but, it concerns me a little that that much length may prematurely wear out the spring from over-tension.

It really depends on the specific spring. Different springs have different stiffnesses, solid & relaxed lengths, diameters, coil pitches, etc (and manufacturers are really bad about actually giving customers those specifics); so there's no hard rule for how long springs should be relative to the length of the tube. The main thing is to be sure the spring is stiff enough to feed all the shells reliably. Based on my testing (which isn't really complete, I had to put it on hold while I was finishing my thesis) as long as you have 1.5 - 2 pounds of spring force or more with the magazine empty, you should be good.