Why the 870?

[cwebb]

Hello all.

I'm fairly new to this community and have a question for everyone here. While I have my reasons...and prejudices ...for why I prefer the 870 over other pump action shotguns I wanted to hear from you.

To clarify I do think Mossbergs, FNs, Weatherbys and of course Ithicas are fine shotguns but when I buy my first shotgun in a few months it won't be any of these.

Thanks in advance for your take on the 870 and why you prefer it over others.

[Chief Brody]

Pretty simple, I prefer the controls on the 870 over the Mossbergs. Very happy with the aesthetics of my wood/parked 870P, too. Don't really need to bring up the reputation for reliability because they're about the same.

[ponycarman]

I like them all. Would love to try out a Mossberg sometime. Just haven't got one yet. I like my 870's for lots of reasons. I like the looks of it and feel. The steel receiver is a big plus to me. Ive seen a few Mossbergs that haven't aged quite as gracefully as the 870's have. One of mine was made in the early 70's and it is still very tight. My cousin has a Mossberg 500 that is around 15-20 years old and it rattles like crazy. Now it doesn't effect function and is still reliable but my 870's just feel more solid. I'm sure there is more but I just haven't thought of it yet haha .

[Zebra62]

We have a few shotguns in our arsenal here at the ranch and we have shot many more through the years and with the exception of very few, most have been highly capable and die hard reliable weapons. The first shotgun I ever bought was a Mossy 500 way back about a hundred years ago when I was still in the Air Force. That one got sold out of a fit of blind rage as I was trying to scrap enough money together to marry my first wife. It didn't end well and I lost almost everything doing it. I do miss that old shotgun though.

Second shotgun was another Mossy 500, this one a Cruiser, becasue I still had fond memories of my first. This one goes with me everywhere as my EDC weapon. I do service work on oil field equipment and sometimes I have to get rough with a few rig workers over why they broke the machinery and it won't be back up and running for a few days because parts are not available. They tend to calm down after seeing that short shotgun appear from nowhere. I haven't had need to shoot anyone, yet, but it could happen.

Fast foreward a few years to my new wife and the not so perfect neighborhood we live in. Every time I walk out the door to work I feel as though it could be the last time I see her. We discussed plans of action and what she should do in the event of a break-in and even though I do have a pistol at home for her to use, she said she would prefer a shotgun as her first choice, so I went out and bought her an 870 Youth model in 20 gauge. Having an affinity for the Mossberg, I looked around for one in a 20 gauge, but there were no Mossy pump guns in my area ands I mean NONE. Everyone said they could special order one, but I wanted one now. So I opted for the 870. I knew from previous experience with a friends 870 that it was as capable as my Mossy. WIfe likes it and has become very proficient with it.

After seeing how she acted with her 870 and wanting to re-enforce our home defense strategy, I bought a second 870, this one a 12 gauge tactical with the factory 6 round magazine. This is strictly a defense weapon. I picked it up because even though it is a 12 gauge, if needed my Wife could use it because the controls are exactly the same as her 20 gauge. She wouldn't need to try to remember where the safety is on a different weapon. It's a minor difference, but even that could mean a second of hesitation at the most inopportune moment.

I like our 870's and I like my Mossy. Given opportunity to purchase with "X" amount of money in my pocket and a choice between both, I would probably have to flip a coin. The next rifke I purchase though is going to be a Remington 700 SPS Varmint .308 with a heavy barrel. The Mossberg equivalent doesn't even come close in my book.

[DaveC]

The Remington 870 is very commonly encountered, indeed one might say almost ubiquitous. The reputation for reliability is second to none. Personally, I do not favor tang-mounted shotgun safeties like the Mossberg, but the Mossberg 590 is an excellent shotgun too. Because the Remington 870 has been around for a very long time, there are lots of different parts and modifications and aftermarket accessories available for it. Not quite like the AR "man barbie" (no offense to our female AR shooters/gals with guns), but pretty darn close. I like the simplicity, reliability, and relative low-cost. I made my preferences for the 879 fairly widely known, and so one was given to me a couple decades ago as a present. I must say I've only ever hunted with it once: South Texas white wing doves, and I was pretty terrible at it. I have used 870s for clay pigeons and shotgun sports, and boy is that ever fun!

When I decided to use my Rem.870 as a defensive gun, I simply modified the version I'd been given. In retrospect, I'd probably have been better served to get a dedicated HD gun in 20-gauge, but I've got the 12-gauge, and so that is what I've used for three defensive shotgun classes.

[cwebb]

Great replies thanks for sharing your views on the 870.

Of the three pump shotguns I've used I prefer the 870 for it's overall feel and the position of its safety. I've never shot an Ithaca though I've heard nothing but good about them. That said the 870 remains my favorite since there is virtually no aftermarket support for the Model 37.

Looking forward picking-up my first 870 in a few months!

Thanks again!

[mercman]

Because they work..............every time.

[cwebb]

Good reason mercman.

[rockyrider66]

Before I bought a Wingmaster 870, I did some research online as to what would be a good gun for Trap. Previously, I owned a Remington 1187 but could not hit the side of a barn, no fault to the gun.
This time, I bought the one with the longest barrel, and a record of reliability and sales.
What I found was, more than 10 million have been sold since 1951. That was good enough for me.
I'm lovin' this gun and progressing every week. I don't see the popularity of the O/U's.

[Synchronizor]

I was browsing through some government documents awhile back (why, what do you do in your free time?), and I came across an interesting Department of State document that basically justifies a decision to go ahead and order a bunch of new 870Ps directly from Remington, rather than opening the bid up and entertaining offers from other vendors or other shotgun manufacturers.

JUSTIFICATION AND APPROVAL (J&A)
FOR OTHER THAN FULL AND OPEN COMPETITION

1. The Office of Acquisition Management is conducting this acquisition for 500 Remington 870 POL (police model) 12/14P (12 Gauge/14” barrel) MD(modified choke) BS(bead sight) SF(synthetic forend) SF(synthetic buttstock) shotguns on behalf of Diplomatic Security, Defensive Equipment and Armored Vehicle Division (DS/PSP/DEAV), 7957 Cluny Court, SA-7A, Springfield, Virginia 22153. The estimated cost is [redacted]

2. Nature and/or description of the action being approved
The U.S. Department of State (DOS) Office of Acquisitions Management (AQM) intends to award a sole source contract to Remington Arms Company of 879 Remington Drive, Madison, NC 27025 for the procurement of 870 POL 12/14P MD BS SF SF shotguns for Diplomatic Security Service to support the Government mandated increase in the number of the U.S.M.C.’s Marine Security Group (MSG) at Embassies overseas and the increased numbers of Diplomatic Security agents worldwide. The 870s weapon system will ensure the continued protection of the Department of State personnel, facilities, and information, and is a critical component of the Department of State’s response to high threat environments.

3. A description of the supplies or services required to meet the Department’s need.

The Remington 870 shotgun has been certified and approved for agents of the Diplomatic Security Service and Marine Security Guards at U.S. Diplomatic Posts abroad. The weapons are used extensively in training for protective operations. Substitution of another weapon from another manufacturer could have a disastrous impact on protective operations where an agent may be forced to defend himself/herself and senior Department Officials with an unfamiliar weapon. The weapon must meet the following specifications:


• Manufactured and assembled exclusively in the US

• All steel receivers made from a single 8lb. block of ordnance grade steel from U.S. mined raw materials. The metal of the receiver when ready to be assembled shall measure between 60 and 90 on the Rockwell hardness scale. Aluminum is not as durable or as strong. The receiver shall have a parkerized finish. A blued finish is not as resistant to corrosion.

• The magazine tube shall be permanently attached to the receiver (brazed, silver soldered, or welded) a screw-in magazine tube is not as durable and reliable.

• Four shot magazine capacity tube. The tube must have the ability to unload without cycling the shells through the action. This is for safety reasons, the magazine must be able to be unloaded without the shells being chambered first.

• The barrel shall fit into the receiver and position off the ejector housing. The bolt shall positively lock into the barrel extension and provide reliable headshaking thus preventing a potentially dangerous situation when excessive headspace is present. The barrel shall also have a steel ball detent locking system to secure the barrel to the receiver. This prevents the barrel from loosening while being fired leading to safety issues.

• The barrel shall be 14” long and have a parkerized finish. A 14” barrel length is more maneuverable in confined spaces, buildings and vehicles. The barrel shall have a modified choke creating a predictable shot pattern at engagement distances. The barrel shall have a 3” 12 gauge chamber that accepts all 2 ¾ “and 3” 12 gauge shells. The barrel shall be made of “4140” ordnance grade U.S. mined steel. The piece of steel shall be formed into the final shape by cold hammer forging using “GFM” (German Forging Machinery), OR EQUAL Hammer forged barrels are by the nature of their design and the method of their manufacture able to prevent catastrophic failure (the barrel separating and/or disintegrating) should the barrel be obstructed when a round is fired . The metal of the barrel when ready to be assembled shall measure between 32 and 36 on the Rockwell hardness scale.

• There shall be a parkerized corrosion resistant finish on metal surfaces. A blued finish is not as resistant to corrosion or non-reflective.

• The trigger assembly shall be made of metal for durability, plastic trigger assemblies are used by competitors and the alignment tabs crack and break off rendering the weapon unserviceable and have a positive cross bolt safety which mechanically blocks the travel of the trigger. Competitors safeties are located on the upper rear of the receiver and do not block the trigger. The sear of the weapon shall be balanced and the firing pin shall be inertia driven that prevents discharge of the weapon until the action is closed and the trigger is pulled. This prevents an “out of battery” detonation of a shell that has an unfortunate habit of destroying the firearm and injuring the shooter. The safety shall be located behind the trigger. Competitors safeties are located on the upper rear of the receiver and do not block the trigger.

• The slide shall use non binding twin action bars to manipulate the action and they should be permanently attached to the forend tube by brazing. The rigidity of the permanently attached action bars enhances the reliability and the durability of the system.

• The stock and forend shall be made of a solid synthetic material that duplicates the weight and the dimensions of the factory wood stock. The stock shall have a sling attachment stud and textured gripping surfaces. The sling stud allows the attachment of DSS selected slings for retention of the weapon.

• The cap of the magazine tube shall have a sling attachment point and shall be finished in the same corrosion resistant coating as the rest of the firearm. The sling stud allows the attachment of DSS selected slings for retention of the weapon.

There's additional boilerplate after this, but I thought this section was an interesting read, as it talks in some detail about why the DSS prefers the 870 over its competitors (primarily the Mossberg 500, best as I can tell), calling out specific features. It's also interesting to see the exact configuration that the DSS prefers for defensive shotguns that need to be effective in vehicles and buildings. 12ga, 14" fixed Modified barrel, front bead sight, Parkerized, synthetic furniture, and a standard 4-round magazine; I would have gone for a polymer trigger plate if that was an option, but apart from that, the build seems perfect for the role.