Different types of 870's??

[ldanes]

Hello I am new to the forum. I have a question about 870's. I read that there is Wingmasters, Express and other types of 870's. Is there a place that delineates the difference
between them all. I am interested in the old type 870's Thanks in advance, Lou

[Chief Brody]

Basically, the Wingmasters are the beautiful, higher-end models and the Express line is essentially the budget-priced option. The Wingmasters have nicer finishes, better internals, nicer wood, etc. Most of the 870s I've seen in stores are usually Expresses - and they're great shotguns, too. Then there are also the Police models, which are on par with Wingmasters in terms of parts/fit and finish.

By the way, Welcome!

[JBall]

The wingmaster & police models use Non Mim parts for crucial internals such as the extractor, and the police models also use heavy carrier dog and hammer springs I believe. Also as mentioned the fit and finish is also a factor. The expresses are generally a matte black finish, the police models are parkerized, and the wingmaster are blued. All 3 models come in a variety of barrel and stock/Forend configurations depending on your liking. They also have a marine model that is completely nickel finished inside and out for extremely corrosion resistant on land/water. Those are the general differences. I'm sure there are a few I am missing. Don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions. Welcome!!

[Synchronizor]

The major differences are cosmetic (finishes, wood, and so on) and the finish quality. Expresses usually have lower-end oxide finishes, and tend to be rougher out of the box than higher-end models, but run just as well once broken in. Wingmasters are the premium line, with fancier wood and nicer, polished bluing, but their internals are virtually identical to equivalent Express models. Police and military 870s are blued or Parkerized, and usually come with extended magazines, use different materials for a couple parts, and have one or two heavier springs (more to meet the priorities of combat roles than to address anything inherently inferior), but are otherwise mechanically identical to other 870s.

Other than that, the different 870s are all manufactured the same way, and apart from role-specific features, share most all the same parts.

The 870 design has changed very little since its introduction, but there have been a couple changes and improvements over the years such as interchangeable choke tubes, tougher polymer trigger plates, and a redesigned shell carrier that won't lock up after a certain type of feed malfunction. These changes are all to specific parts though, and new-style parts can be easily installed in older 870s to bring them up-to-date, if desired.

[Water-Man]

What's the difference between the Express and the Combo besides the obvious?

[Synchronizor]

870 combo packages are just normal 870s that come with two barrels instead of one - usually a vent-rib bird/clay barrel and a slug hunting barrel. There's no other difference. If you bought an Express with a slug barrel and ordered a vent-rib barrel separately, you'd have the exact same thing.



Combo barrel packages are a bigger deal for guns where the barrels need to be fitted to a specific receiver, like the old Winchester Model 12; or where there's extensive variation between different models and barrels have to be matched, like the Mossberg 500-series shotguns. Standard 870 barrels of the same gauge are all completely interchangeable without any fitting or gunsmithing, regardless of year, model, or even chamber size, so the combo packages mostly just make for convenient shopping. If you want something besides the bird & slug barrel combo (say, a HD barrel & turkey barrel, or a skeet barrel & a trap barrel), or if you want a different style gun (synthetic or camo finish/furniture instead of the Express wood laminate), or if your local prices or financial situation favor buying the second barrel separately, there's no real reason to go for the combo.

[Rob62]

Here is a detailed explanation straight from Remington about the differences between an 870 Express and 870P (Police).

I contend that purchasing an older used, good condition, 870 Express is one of the best values in shotguns today. They can be very easily and inexpensively upgraded with 870P springs to fundamentally 870P performance levels.

Regards,

Rob

Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market. It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality. All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences. It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models. Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.

While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police. To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety. (Edited to update Remington stopped using the ISS at some point of production altogether)

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty. (Edited to add: The "dimples" have been removed again on most if not all Express models and I believe that once again extended magazine tubes can be used on Express shotguns. If your Express has the "dimples" it is a simple matter of either swaging them, or drilling them out)

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing. (Edited to add: Older models of Express shotguns have the metal trigger housing)

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system. (Edited to add: Again there have been changes in this area and that is not true of all Express shotguns)

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

[Synchronizor]

Rob62, that's an old list that's been out of date for years now.

[Rob62]

Yeah I realized that after I posted it and am trying to edit it. Hopefully it makes sense. Maybe I should delete the post altogether ?? You thoughts ?

I guess more than anything it shows the fluidity of how often manufacturing changes.

Things that are aren't, and those that aren't now are

Regards,

Rob

[Synchronizor]

You should be able to just edit the post. If you're having trouble with that, I can do it for you.