Unloading from the bottom

[go7roo7]

Hey guys

My first post and sadly its an issue. I have had this with both my rem870 and my Hawk shotguns (hawk is 870clone).
I dont know what this issue is called just what it does.

I usually unload my shotgun for cleaning by the bottom ( pushing the feed ramp up and pressing the shell holder to the side to release 1 shell at a time from the bottom ( which the bolt closed).

One day this stopped working. The shell ramp stopped going down enough to clear the rim of the shells to allow them to slide out of the loading space on the bottom of the shotgun, forcing me to resort to pump and remove the shells from the ejection port.

Does anyone know how to fix this or what the issue is called? I have taken the shotgun apart countless times but for the life of me cant find what is causing the feed ramp to not move all the way down.

(PS. this also causes issues when loading the tube, basically not allowing the shells to go all the way in the tube ( looks like the ramp is pushing up or not going down enough to allow the rim of the rounds to clear into the tube).

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

[Synchronizor]

Are you sure you have the action all the way closed? The slide and breech bolt assemblies are cut out to allow the shell carrier to come up enough to insert or remove shells. If the action isn't all the way closed, with the bolt locked into the barrel, things won't line up and the carrier will do exactly what you're describing.

If that's not your problem, you may have a bent carrier. What gauge and chamber length is your 870, and when was it made?

[go7roo7]

Are you sure you have the action all the way closed? The slide and breech bolt assemblies are cut out to allow the shell carrier to come up enough to insert or remove shells. If the action isn't all the way closed, with the bolt locked into the barrel, things won't line up and the carrier will do exactly what you're describing.

If that's not your problem, you may have a bent carrier. What gauge and chamber length is your 870, and when was it made?

In my haste I forgot to mention, this issue is happening with my hawk 870 copy (the only diff is the hawk barrel nut is about 1 inch higher than the 870). Its a new Hawk982 (18 inch, 12 gauge). My old 870, I gave it to my dad for his house since I moved out.

http://www.iacshotguns.com/982pump.html

Yes I make sure the pump is all the way forward ( and the bolt is 100% closed from what I can see). This all started when I had a double feed ( except the second round that caused the issue came all the way out of the tube so I had to take the shotgun apart to clear it practically. At the time I did not know the correct procedure to clear a double feed from a shotgun, and since this happened with dummy rounds I wasn't afraid to take it apart.


Also I just searched 870 bent carrier, and I will check mine at home when I am out of work. If it is bent is this a replace part, or a bend back carefully part? I shot the shotgun and it feeds fine. So now that I think of it it might be me not closing the bolt all the way. will double check.

[Synchronizor]

The shell carrier mechanism was designed with a little extra upward travel to hold a raised shell more firmly and compensate for tolerance stacking and minor wear or damage, so it's quite possible for a bent carrier to obstruct the magazine, but still feed shells into the chamber well enough. If operator error isn't to blame for your problem, it sounds like it could be a bent carrier caused by your double-feed. Modern 870s have a "flex-tab" carrier that allows the action to cycle relatively unhindered if a shell gets stuck between the carrier and the slide assembly, but from the pictures I've seen, the Hawk doesn't have this feature.

As for the fix/replace question, my default recommendation is to replace it. With the 870, Remington will mail you a replacement carrier assembly for $15 - $20 plus shipping (possibly free if you get an easygoing phone operator), and installation requires no tools aside from whatever you use to take your trigger plate assembly out of the gun. I don't know if spare parts are as easy to obtain for the Norinco clone, though. If the carrier is just slightly bent, and not stressed or cracked anywhere, you could try carefully bending it back into a workable shape. A new part would still be the best way to go, but I know people have been able to repair slightly bent carriers that way.

Also, on an unrelated note, I'd be interested to know whether or not your Hawk 982 has an ejector spring.

[go7roo7]

The shell carrier mechanism was designed with a little extra upward travel to hold a raised shell more firmly and compensate for tolerance stacking and minor wear or damage, so it's quite possible for a bent carrier to obstruct the magazine, but still feed shells into the chamber well enough. If operator error isn't to blame for your problem, it sounds like it could be a bent carrier caused by your double-feed. Modern 870s have a "flex-tab" carrier that allows the action to cycle relatively unhindered if a shell gets stuck between the carrier and the slide assembly, but from the pictures I've seen, the Hawk doesn't have this feature.

As for the fix/replace question, my default recommendation is to replace it. With the 870, Remington will mail you a replacement carrier assembly for $15 - $20 plus shipping (possibly free if you get an easygoing phone operator), and installation requires no tools aside from whatever you use to take your trigger plate assembly out of the gun. I don't know if spare parts are as easy to obtain for the Norinco clone, though. If the carrier is just slightly bent, and not stressed or cracked anywhere, you could try carefully bending it back into a workable shape. A new part would still be the best way to go, but I know people have been able to repair slightly bent carriers that way.

Also, on an unrelated note, I'd be interested to know whether or not your Hawk 982 has an ejector spring.

Awesome thank you for the information! I will get home and take the gun apart and post some pics for review!

[Short Bus]

I have a H&R Pardner Pump (made by Hawk) I have the same issue if I try to unload with a closed bolt, but it works fine with the bolt closed and the feeding gate up.

[go7roo7]

just took the gun totally apart. No damage to the ramp or any mechanical part. Just seems to me the tube (orange push tab-thingie, sorry the official name escapes me now) is pushing the rounds in a downward angle, and they touch the lip of the ramp. But like ^ said, I forgot that I can unload it with the bolt back and ramp up .

[Synchronizor]

just took the gun totally apart. No damage to the ramp or any mechanical part. Just seems to me the tube (orange push tab-thingie, sorry the official name escapes me now) is pushing the rounds in a downward angle, and they touch the lip of the ramp.

That can happen with an undamaged carrier. The shells have a little wiggle room in the magazine tube, so that they move freely and don't drag or create a vacuum behind them as they're inserted and removed. If the rim of a shell is against the top of the tube, it can stop against the tip of the carrier even if the carrier is pressed all the way up against the slide assembly. If this happens, you should be able to pull the shell down a hair and it'll slide right out. If you absolutely can't work a shell out of the magazine with the carrier pushed hard against the slide assembly, you may still have a bent carrier.

While I'm mentioning this; if anyone's thinking of trying to adjust an undamaged carrier with a pair of pliers, hold your horses. Like a lot of the perceived "design flaws" with the 870's design, this aspect of the carrier's shape serves a purpose. While the tip of the carrier is lower than it theoretically needs to be to catch shells from the magazine, that extra space protects against fail-to-feeds if the carrier has been pushed up slightly; when shooting from a rest, for example, or if the slide is racked while the gun is held around the loading port.

Anyway, I prefer to unload my 870 with the action closed, because I can use the carrier to pop shells right into my hand. I can completely unload an extended magazine in 2-3 seconds with that little assist.

When I unload with the action closed, I usually use the thumb of my right hand to push the carrier up and depress the latch, and my other hand to give the shell base a little tug down to make sure it clears the carrier and slides out immediately. I can unload one-handed easily enough, but that's slower if one or more rims catches on the carrier, and I have to use my thumb to shift it down and out.

[ponycarman]

I had to tweak the new carrier I installed in my old wingmaster. But for a different reason. It wasn't centered in the opening at the bottom of the receiver and would hang up on the action bars when I worked the action. Took a ton of time to get it right. Put it together and check then take it apart and tweak it a little. I i did finally get it to cycle properly without obstruction.

[go7roo7]

Well I will take a video to show exactly what is going on. I cycled my 12 dummy rounds through the shotgun for about 30 minutes, loading, unloading, feeding etc, and I did not have an issue. No double feed, failures to eject, or feed etc. I inspected the trigger group mechanism and found nothing bent, or warped. What I thought is maybe that orange follower that pushes the rounds out of the tube is bent or warped since its rather cheap looking plastic, and maybe this got messed up when I had that bad double feed once.