New toys

[DaveC]

Next time you are at a range facility that allows shooting pump action shotguns, try treating it for an extended session as a single-shot breach *ahem, breech loader. Keep the shotgun pointed at the target, pump the action open, grab a reload, pop it in the chamber, close the action, pull the trigger. Try to keep up a good cadence, and then worry about speeding things up/making your motion more efficient.

If the shotgun is empty, you can at least get a round in the chamber while you survey for threats.

No one says you have to have the magazine all loaded and topped up before you respond to a new emerging threat/ target that presents itself. This is where some of the skills of Cowboy Action shooting can greatly assist weapon handling in another firearm sphere... Shooting a muzzle-loader helps with my off-hand rifle shooting, having to load the chamber and shoot helps with so-called "tactical" reloads with the 870. How much dedicated practice does the average CHL/CCW carrier do on something so simple as draw and presentation of the weapon, hmm? Getting the dang thing out and ready quickly has to be practiced like anything else. Snap caps and "dry" practice at home are really the way to go here.

[JBall]

I agree. A breach load is an extremely important tactic to have down. When that shotgun runs dry the very first round that goes back in should always be a direct breach load just to get the weapon back in duty. From there your situational circumstances will dictate what reload process will be most efficient and beneficial in that situation from there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTWKJYdilv8
This is a video of Cory and Erika from "Range TIme" discussing the OSOE "Cop Rig" i have and just previously discussed in the "New Toys" Topic. It just so happens to be what the video is showcasing but i am posting it because right when they begin the actual shooting footage Cory runs his gun dry and than does the breach load technique a few times for you guys to get a better understanding. just thought it would be a good visual for anyone a little confused or who maybe doesn't know the terms well.

[Zebra62]

Next time you are at a range facility that allows shooting pump action shotguns, try treating it for an extended session as a single-shot breach loader. Keep the shotgun pointed at the target, pump the action open, grab a reload, pop it in the chamber, close the action, pull the trigger. Try to keep up a good cadence, and then worry about speeding things up/making your motion more efficient.

Been there and done that. We have tried different techniques of breach loading and the weak handed underneath method feels better for us. Until recently, we have been pulling our rounds from a hunting bag hanging on our left side, directly off the buttstock carrier or off a bandolier. Different results from different attachments.

Gypsy is currently quicker doing a strong hand reload with the butt up over her shoulder, competition style. spinning the weapon on its side and pulling from the buttstock carrier. She stocks it with brass down and pulls from back to front. I am slower than she is with this technique because the loops on my carrier are tighter and sometimes my fingers slip off the shells. That’s the difference of 20 gauge rounds in a 12 gauge carrier. Her carrier does have a cover so the rounds don’t just fall out.

I am quicker pulling rounds from the left side hunting bag as long as the rounds don’t get jumbled around and swap ends on me. I can usually get three rounds out at the same time and quickly drop them in underhanded for consecutive shots without having to go back into the bag. Problem with this method is keeping the rounds all pointed the same way (brass to the rear) as the bag get tussled about.

Pulling rounds from the bandolier is slow and awkward for both of us because it tends to move around too much. The bandolier is alright for use as a storage option, something to pull rounds from and restock your main carriers, but not as a supply to feed your machine with. At least not for us.

Now that we have the Saf-T Trainers and the strippers, we can practice our loads at home. Gypsy is very happy about that. Our local range isn’t that far out of town, but going there means we need to schedule time with a babysitter and our kids are picky about their sitters. Its hit and miss with their availability. I have practiced a couple times this week using the Saf-T Trainers, pulling from my CCW stripper on the belt of my vest and it feels much better than pulling from the bag. The rounds are already positioned correctly and I don’t have to worry about them swapping ends like in the bag. I can still pull two or three rounds for consecutive shots. Having only 6 rounds in the stripper, I have to restock it frequently. Need to get more strippers.

Gypsy has yet to practice with hers as she has children to deal with all day and in the evening after dealing with the kids all day she is likely to use her shotgun on me. She will probably pick it up this weekend and cycle a few of the trainers through.

[JBall]

Sync I can't completely agree with you on this issue. We all know situation and circumstance dictate tactic. The rollover (although a wonderful technique and what seems to be most popular for simplicity and ease) technique just isn't practical in all lethal encounters. We don't expect the worst situations, but we prepare for them. For example if you and a teammate (significant other, whatever) got caught in the open and the only "cover" you had was taking turns laying down suppressive fire while the other reloads and you both simultaneously move towards physical cover? You CAN NOT efficiently move and reload a rolled over shotgun while keeping your eyes in the fight. What happens when you look down to reload your tube and your attacker shifts cover? Now when you come back up on what you remembered to be the targets location, he is not there and has inadvertently (with your help of course) given himself tactical advantage to end the fight. This is where with lots of practice and repetition (like you mention sync) trapping the weapon and loading from your saddle, carrier, or rig in an upward fashion. With the weapon trapped tightly to your body and your shells trapped firmly between your thumb and middle finger (some prefer thumb and ring finger) you have very good control over your "workspace". With the weapon trapped in the 1 or 2 O'Clock (angled up/forward) position you have less gravity working against you than if just loading from underneath with it shouldered. Thanks to this, once you get the tip of the hull under the lip of the mag tube its just simple forward pressure to seat it without worry of it falling out or getting bobbled.
This is also where I def agree with DaveC on the breech loading technique. Once a shotgun runs dry your first priority in ANY lethal force situation is to get that weapon back in battery by feeding the breach immediately. From here, like I mentioned earlier, your situational circumstances will dictate the reload tactic best suited for your situation. The more "Tools"(ability's) you have in your tool belt, the more suited you will be to survive and protect your loved ones in a life endangering force on force or lethal encounter.

[DaveC]

Darn English language...long overdue for a reform or two... I wrote "breach" but I meant "breech"... Well, you get the idea.

If there was a way to go back and change it, I'd write "breech" especially since "breach" in shotgun jargon has different connotations, no?

[DaveC]

I don't know if folks remember Louis Awerbuck's generally *excellent* Combat Shotgun VHS tape... This was way back when slow-motion footage showed that his awesome fighting technique had such control over recoil that only his sweet mullet hair-style moved when he fired...

Anyhow, kidding aside, his recommendation was for total consistency in loading. For that reason, he assumed most Rem 870 users would start out with "cruiser ready," i.e. hammer down on an empty chamber, with a full tube magazine, sliding the action to chamber a cartridge and bringing it to the shoulder, un-safing the weapon with sights on target, and then firing. He advocated using the weak hand placing reloads into the tube magazine only. His thinking was that it would be the one method and would be "less to think about" in a high-stress situation.

Bottom line: What works out well in your use, adapt it to your own situation and practice.

[JBall]

Unless you are having to manipulate the slide release, your primary hand should never come off the fire controls. We should always try to minimize waste movement. They goal is quick deliberate actions that have no unnecessary or overly exaggerated movements. Now I guess you an say to each his own but that's not really true in this situation or in any lethal force situation where you are playing a similar role. That role is actively participating in your own defense. As in any lethal force or combat situation time is life and seconds, or fractions of, count. Period. So like I've said, situation should dictate tactic. That being said, the more well rounded you are in reload tactics, load changeover techniques, and pattern knowledge of your loads with your shotgun the better chance you have of surviving whatever brutal assault has unfortunately occurred against you and/or your family, innocents, etc... I hope i don't come off like a closed minded dick or anything. It's just fact that lethal force confrontations are usually very fast, close proximity, ultra violent confrontations. We need to be prepared to the very best of are abilities (not just firearms training either, most importantly is MINDSET). Cause as the old saying goes, "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun." The only thing that could make this sentence any truer would be to make it *Trained Goodguy*.

[Synchronizor]

Breech-loading is a great skill to practice, both as a way to quickly bring an empty gun back into action, and as a component in ammo changeovers. Running the gun through the breach only can be useful in a few situations, but it'll never be as quick as shooting from the magazine, so topping that off when possible should still be a priority.

Sync I can't completely agree with you on this issue. We all know situation and circumstance dictate tactic. The rollover (although a wonderful technique and what seems to be most popular for simplicity and ease) technique just isn't practical in all lethal encounters. We don't expect the worst situations, but we prepare for them. For example if you and a teammate (significant other, whatever) got caught in the open and the only "cover" you had was taking turns laying down suppressive fire while the other reloads and you both simultaneously move towards physical cover? You CAN NOT efficiently move and reload a rolled over shotgun while keeping your eyes in the fight. What happens when you look down to reload your tube and your attacker shifts cover? Now when you come back up on what you remembered to be the targets location, he is not there and has inadvertently (with your help of course) given himself tactical advantage to end the fight.

Unless you are having to manipulate the slide release, your primary hand should never come off the fire controls. We should always try to minimize waste movement. They goal is quick deliberate actions that have no unnecessary or overly exaggerated movements.

Actually, that's a situation where I'd definitely want to reload with my dominant hand. I have very poor control of the weapon holding it by the grip only, and my off hand isn't dexterous enough to load the magazine quickly and reliably without paying a lot of direct attention to the process. Running would only make these issues worse. The most effective way for me to reload my magazine quickly while running would be to use my less-dexterous hand to hold the gun near its center of gravity (by the fore-end or just behind it) while my dominant hand feeds shells. I may be taking my shooting hand away from the trigger, but I'm not going to be able to aim and shoot effectively with one hand in any case, especially not when I'm moving. Using my dominant hand lets me pay more attention to my surroundings and spend less time loading. The gun can be rolled-over or right side up for this, the best orientation depends on where I'm pulling shells from, and how many I'm holding in my hand. Either way, it doesn't appreciably change the time needed to re-shoulder the gun.

This is where with lots of practice and repetition (like you mention sync) trapping the weapon and loading from your saddle, carrier, or rig in an upward fashion. With the weapon trapped tightly to your body and your shells trapped firmly between your thumb and middle finger (some prefer thumb and ring finger) you have very good control over your "workspace". With the weapon trapped in the 1 or 2 O'Clock (angled up/forward) position you have less gravity working against you than if just loading from underneath with it shouldered. Thanks to this, once you get the tip of the hull under the lip of the mag tube its just simple forward pressure to seat it without worry of it falling out or getting bobbled.

If you're talking about the effect of gravity on the shell itself, it's kind of a moot consideration for shotguns like the 870. It doesn't matter how the gun's oriented, you still have to apply 1-2 pounds of force to push the shell carrier out of the way (more if you're using an 1100 carrier latch spring instead of the standard carrier dog follower spring).