Hello,
I am new to shotguns but have a smallj arsenal of other firearms.
I will be purchasing a shotgun for home defense and fun.no hunting I am awhare of. LOL
Have narrowed my choise down to the Remington 870 Express Tactical and the Mossberg 590A1. I have done and am doing my homework on these two but would like your thoughts. Obviously I am on an 870 forum, I know that. LOL
Just needing a bit of guidance.
Thanks
New member with questions
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Re: New member with questions
There are a couple different 870 Express Tactical models. Was there a specific one you were looking at?
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Re: New member with questions
Good choice, I think that's the best of the Express Tactical 870s.
Here are some 590A1s. I don't know if you have a specific choice with them.
There are a bunch of different 590A1 models offered, but here are some general comparison points.
>Depending on the model and where you're buying it, a 590A1 is probably going to be more expensive than that 870, but remember to factor in any extras you'll be adding to either gun.
>The 590A1s are advertised as being "the only shotguns purchased by the United States government that meet or exceed Mil-S-3443 specifications." This is widely misunderstood to mean that the 590A1 beat the 870 in the Mil-S-3443 tests, but the U.S. Armed Forces were already buying 870s before the 590 was even developed. Based on what I've heard, the 870 was never even submitted for that specific bid. In the area of military service, both the 870 and the 590A1 have more than proven themselves.
>The 590A1 models come with a lot of different stock & fore-end options, the #81198 Tactical 870 comes with the basic LE synthetic furniture (which is actually a very nice basic set), but pretty much any of the 590A1 furniture is also offered for 870s.
>The 870 is threaded for chokes. It comes with a breacher choke, but you can replace that with any Rem Choke tube to adjust your pattern if you want to. The 590A1 barrels have fixed cylinder bores. A screw-in choke gives you an extra thing to clean and maintain, but it also makes the gun a lot more flexible.
>The 590A1 has a military Parkerized finish to comply with Mil-S-3443, while the Express Tactical 870 you're looking at has a less durable matte bluing. Parkerizing is obviously better, but for HD and playing around at the range, you probably don't need the extra protection. Some people just like the idea of having it though.
>The 870 has an 18.5" barrel and a 7-round capacity. You can mix & match any standard 870 barrel and magazine extension to reconfigure the gun if you want to. The 590A1 has either a 20" barrel with an 8- or 9-round capacity (depending on what shells you're loading), or an 18.5" barrel with a 6-round capacity. Those are the only two barrel options I know of for that gun. I think there some things you can do with the magazine, but I don't know the details; suffice it to say the 870 is far more flexible when it comes to barrels and magazine extensions.
>The 590A1 has an ambidextrous tang-mounted safety on top of the receiver, while the 870 has a right-handed crossbolt safety behind the trigger that can be switched with a left-handed one if desired. The safety location is mostly a matter of personal preference, unless you're considering a pistol-grip stock, in which case the 590A1's safety is hard to reach.
>The 870's slide release is in front of the trigger guard, while that of the 590A1 is behind the trigger guard. The 870's release is not as easy to reach, but it won't really limit you much once you get used to it, and it prevents the slide from being released accidentally. Again, it's a matter of personal preference, so you'll have to decide what feels best to you.
>The 870's shell carrier stays in the "down" position when the bolt is closed, and has to be pushed aside to load shells. The 590A1's carrier stays out of the way with the action closed. Either gun can be loaded just as quickly, but the 870 will take a little more practice.
>The 590A1 is more complicated to take down than the 870, but once you get the hang of it, neither should give you trouble.
>A couple parts like the shell latches or ejector spring are more involved to replace on the 870, but they don't break very often (if at all). Unless you're preparing for the end of the world, it's nothing your local gunsmith shouldn't be able to handle.
>Both the 870 and 9-round 590A1s have a piece on the end of the magazine to accept bayonet mounting rings, but you need to buy the rear lug for the 870 separately.
>The 590A1 can't accept some accessories designed for other 500-series Mossbergs, while virtually all 870 parts are interchangeable. There are still a lot of accessories out there for the 590A1, though.
>The 590A1 has a metal trigger guard (to comply with revision G of Mil-S-3443), while the 870 has a polymer one. Both are very durable, but some people just hate anything synthetic.
That's all I can think of right now, feel free to ask any specific questions you have. Bottom line is, these are both really good guns that have been proven in both military and law enforcement, you'd have a hard time going wrong with either one. If at all possible, I would recommend you find a way to try out each one at a range, and see which control setup feels best to you, because that's the biggest legitimate reason people prefer one or the other.
Here are some 590A1s. I don't know if you have a specific choice with them.
There are a bunch of different 590A1 models offered, but here are some general comparison points.
>Depending on the model and where you're buying it, a 590A1 is probably going to be more expensive than that 870, but remember to factor in any extras you'll be adding to either gun.
>The 590A1s are advertised as being "the only shotguns purchased by the United States government that meet or exceed Mil-S-3443 specifications." This is widely misunderstood to mean that the 590A1 beat the 870 in the Mil-S-3443 tests, but the U.S. Armed Forces were already buying 870s before the 590 was even developed. Based on what I've heard, the 870 was never even submitted for that specific bid. In the area of military service, both the 870 and the 590A1 have more than proven themselves.
>The 590A1 models come with a lot of different stock & fore-end options, the #81198 Tactical 870 comes with the basic LE synthetic furniture (which is actually a very nice basic set), but pretty much any of the 590A1 furniture is also offered for 870s.
>The 870 is threaded for chokes. It comes with a breacher choke, but you can replace that with any Rem Choke tube to adjust your pattern if you want to. The 590A1 barrels have fixed cylinder bores. A screw-in choke gives you an extra thing to clean and maintain, but it also makes the gun a lot more flexible.
>The 590A1 has a military Parkerized finish to comply with Mil-S-3443, while the Express Tactical 870 you're looking at has a less durable matte bluing. Parkerizing is obviously better, but for HD and playing around at the range, you probably don't need the extra protection. Some people just like the idea of having it though.
>The 870 has an 18.5" barrel and a 7-round capacity. You can mix & match any standard 870 barrel and magazine extension to reconfigure the gun if you want to. The 590A1 has either a 20" barrel with an 8- or 9-round capacity (depending on what shells you're loading), or an 18.5" barrel with a 6-round capacity. Those are the only two barrel options I know of for that gun. I think there some things you can do with the magazine, but I don't know the details; suffice it to say the 870 is far more flexible when it comes to barrels and magazine extensions.
>The 590A1 has an ambidextrous tang-mounted safety on top of the receiver, while the 870 has a right-handed crossbolt safety behind the trigger that can be switched with a left-handed one if desired. The safety location is mostly a matter of personal preference, unless you're considering a pistol-grip stock, in which case the 590A1's safety is hard to reach.
>The 870's slide release is in front of the trigger guard, while that of the 590A1 is behind the trigger guard. The 870's release is not as easy to reach, but it won't really limit you much once you get used to it, and it prevents the slide from being released accidentally. Again, it's a matter of personal preference, so you'll have to decide what feels best to you.
>The 870's shell carrier stays in the "down" position when the bolt is closed, and has to be pushed aside to load shells. The 590A1's carrier stays out of the way with the action closed. Either gun can be loaded just as quickly, but the 870 will take a little more practice.
>The 590A1 is more complicated to take down than the 870, but once you get the hang of it, neither should give you trouble.
>A couple parts like the shell latches or ejector spring are more involved to replace on the 870, but they don't break very often (if at all). Unless you're preparing for the end of the world, it's nothing your local gunsmith shouldn't be able to handle.
>Both the 870 and 9-round 590A1s have a piece on the end of the magazine to accept bayonet mounting rings, but you need to buy the rear lug for the 870 separately.
>The 590A1 can't accept some accessories designed for other 500-series Mossbergs, while virtually all 870 parts are interchangeable. There are still a lot of accessories out there for the 590A1, though.
>The 590A1 has a metal trigger guard (to comply with revision G of Mil-S-3443), while the 870 has a polymer one. Both are very durable, but some people just hate anything synthetic.
That's all I can think of right now, feel free to ask any specific questions you have. Bottom line is, these are both really good guns that have been proven in both military and law enforcement, you'd have a hard time going wrong with either one. If at all possible, I would recommend you find a way to try out each one at a range, and see which control setup feels best to you, because that's the biggest legitimate reason people prefer one or the other.
Re: New member with questions
This:
I'm certainly no expert, but it was my understanding that Mossberg was building some Mossberg 590s for the NYPD that had the same sight-picture as the issued Glock service pistols, which struck me as a really good idea for civilian users too... As it happens, I've just got a simple bead on my Rem. 870, although some of the XS sights are quite nice. I might have to consider one of those tritium glow-in-the-dark beads or something like that.
With a standard shoulder-stock, the ambidextrous tang safety of the Mossberg has much to recommend. That said, I installed a pistol-grip youth-sized buttstock on my shotgun [a Remington 870], which is only good with the 870 safety position...>The 590A1 has an ambidextrous tang-mounted safety on top of the receiver, while the 870 has a right-handed crossbolt safety behind the trigger that can be switched with a left-handed one if desired. The safety location is mostly a matter of personal preference, unless you're considering a pistol-grip stock, in which case the 590A1's safety is hard to reach.
I'm certainly no expert, but it was my understanding that Mossberg was building some Mossberg 590s for the NYPD that had the same sight-picture as the issued Glock service pistols, which struck me as a really good idea for civilian users too... As it happens, I've just got a simple bead on my Rem. 870, although some of the XS sights are quite nice. I might have to consider one of those tritium glow-in-the-dark beads or something like that.
Alle Kunst ist umsonst, wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.
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Re: New member with questions
A lot of people (likely a majority) do seem to prefer a tang safety to a crossbolt. However, while there are some minor advantages to each system, neither type is universally superior. Both will effectively prevent the gun from firing if designed properly, the effect of their location and operation is primarily subjective, and will vary from person to person.DaveC wrote:With a standard shoulder-stock, the ambidextrous tang safety of the Mossberg has much to recommend. That said, I installed a pistol-grip youth-sized buttstock on my shotgun [a Remington 870], which is only good with the 870 safety position...
Some objective advantages of a tang safety are:
>Due to its location, a tang safety can be ambidextrous, while a crossbolt safety must either be manipulated differently by right- and left-handed shooters, or be reversible to be optimized for one orientation at a time.
>While mechanical details will vary widely from gun to gun; it could be argued that a tang safety allows for easier implementation of a more positive hammer block mechanism, whereas crossbolt safeties tend to only prevent trigger pulls.
>The actions for switching a tang safety on and off are nearly identical, while with a crossbolt, one action (generally deactivation) will be inherently more expeditious.
>A tang safety tends to be faster and easier to check visually than a crossbolt safety.
Some objective advantages of a crossbolt safety are:
>When the gun is disassembled, allowing the hammer to snap forward without anything to strike can cause damage. Having a safety that is integral to the trigger assembly helps prevent accidental trigger pulls when the assembly is out of the gun.
>With pistol-grips, thumbhole stocks, or even some fuller semi-grip stocks; manipulating a crossbolt safety on the trigger guard is faster and less awkward than working a tang safety.
>A crossbolt safety is in a less-exposed location than a tang-mounted safety, making it less likely to be switched on or off inadvertently, and less likely to be damaged during rough handling of the firearm. Having the safety and trigger in separate locations also creates two locations where impacts could potentially disable the weapon.
>The status of a crossbolt safety is easier to check by touch than a tang safety, especially when wearing gloves.
Some personal reasons I prefer the 870's crossbolt safety are:
>Do to my anthropometry, shooting technique and preference for traditional semi-grip shotgun stocks, the safety button sits directly under the third knuckle of my trigger finger when I'm holding the gun at the ready. Because of this, I can feel the status of the safety without looking at it, and tap it off without shifting my grip or even taking my fingertip off the trigger.
>I have large hands, so when manipulating a tang-mounted safety, my thumb intrudes into my sight picture, blocking low-profile sight systems like vent-ribs or beads completely and distracting my eye from higher-mounted systems such as rifle sights or optics. Even if the movement of my hand doesn't change the alignment of my eye and the sights, it would still take a moment for my eye to refocus on the target after manipulating the safety.
>When I'm loading multiple shells into the shotgun, I hold it upside-down with my left hand and feed them in with my right. I can't check the safety by touch with my right hand occupied, but due to the gun's orientation, I can still check a crossbolt safety visually.
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Dang, that kind of turned into an essay, didn't it? I need to cut myself off and get back to grading papers, but I hope this is helpful.
Re: New member with questions
That essay certainly warrants an A+. Thanks for the great dissertation!
Much of what you said, I had come to the same conclusions in my thought prcesses. I will no doubt be putting an ATI stock for pistol grip on it, so yes, the crossbolt safety will work great.
If I am correct, the 870's breacher choke really isn't a choke for the purposes a choke is used for. Correct? Should I decide to remove the beecher choke and want to run it without it, I am sure I will need to place "something" in its place to protect the threads....again, correct? What is that part called and where could I secure one?
Thanks again,
Jerry
Much of what you said, I had come to the same conclusions in my thought prcesses. I will no doubt be putting an ATI stock for pistol grip on it, so yes, the crossbolt safety will work great.
If I am correct, the 870's breacher choke really isn't a choke for the purposes a choke is used for. Correct? Should I decide to remove the beecher choke and want to run it without it, I am sure I will need to place "something" in its place to protect the threads....again, correct? What is that part called and where could I secure one?
Thanks again,
Jerry
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Re: New member with questions
That's correct. Remington's breacher choke is a stand-off, it has no constriction in order to allow specialty ammo to pass through it unhindered.grahng wrote:If I am correct, the 870's breacher choke really isn't a choke for the purposes a choke is used for. Correct?
This is also true of most aftermarket breacher chokes; though Briley offers a rather unique breacher choke based on their Comp Choke system, giving you the option of having the breacher stand-off as well as any constriction from Cylinder to Extra Full.
They also offer a choke for for hunting "wabbits". I had to mention it...
All breacher chokes for the 870 consist of a stand-off attached to the end of a screw-in choke tube. If you remove the breacher choke, you can replace it with any Rem Choke hunting or sporting choke tube.grahng wrote:Should I decide to remove the beecher choke and want to run it without it, I am sure I will need to place "something" in its place to protect the threads....again, correct? What is that part called and where could I secure one?
Dozens of manufacturers offer choke tubes for the Rem Choke system. A basic flush-mount tube will probably run you about $15 - $25 new, but you can often find used tubes for less than $10 if you keep your eye out for them. Just make sure the tubes and especially threads are in good condition before you try to install them.
Re: New member with questions
Thanks again. I'm sure I'll other questions.
Jerry
Jerry
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Re: New member with questions
One thing I forgot to mention in my initial comparison:
I haven't had any trigger time with one personally, but everything I've heard supports that a 590A1 runs very smoothly out of the box. Considering it's Mossberg's top-end pump gun, this is to be expected. The 870 Express Tactical will probably not be as smooth brand new (unlike an 870 Police or Wingmaster), but the beauty of the 870 action is that all the moving parts "wear in", and fit themselves to each other. So as you use an 870, the action slicks up and becomes very smooth. This goes for most pump guns to some extent, but the 870 is renowned for just getting smoother and smoother with use.
Since you should thoroughly break in any gun you plan to rely on anyway, this really isn't a deciding factor between the two. I'm mentioning it because if you're in a store seeing how each one feels, you should be aware that the feel of a brand-new pump gun's action is not always the best indicator of how it will feel once it's run in.
I haven't had any trigger time with one personally, but everything I've heard supports that a 590A1 runs very smoothly out of the box. Considering it's Mossberg's top-end pump gun, this is to be expected. The 870 Express Tactical will probably not be as smooth brand new (unlike an 870 Police or Wingmaster), but the beauty of the 870 action is that all the moving parts "wear in", and fit themselves to each other. So as you use an 870, the action slicks up and becomes very smooth. This goes for most pump guns to some extent, but the 870 is renowned for just getting smoother and smoother with use.
Since you should thoroughly break in any gun you plan to rely on anyway, this really isn't a deciding factor between the two. I'm mentioning it because if you're in a store seeing how each one feels, you should be aware that the feel of a brand-new pump gun's action is not always the best indicator of how it will feel once it's run in.