Why the 870?

General discussion about Remington 870 shotgun.
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Banshee
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Re: Why the 870?

Post by Banshee »

Synchronizor wrote:I was browsing through some government documents awhile back (why, what do you do in your free time?), and I came across an interesting Department of State document that basically justifies a decision to go ahead and order a bunch of new 870Ps directly from Remington, rather than opening the bid up and entertaining offers from other vendors or other shotgun manufacturers.
JUSTIFICATION AND APPROVAL (J&A)
FOR OTHER THAN FULL AND OPEN COMPETITION

1. The Office of Acquisition Management is conducting this acquisition for 500 Remington 870 POL (police model) 12/14P (12 Gauge/14” barrel) MD(modified choke) BS(bead sight) SF(synthetic forend) SF(synthetic buttstock) shotguns on behalf of Diplomatic Security, Defensive Equipment and Armored Vehicle Division (DS/PSP/DEAV), 7957 Cluny Court, SA-7A, Springfield, Virginia 22153. The estimated cost is [redacted]

2. Nature and/or description of the action being approved
The U.S. Department of State (DOS) Office of Acquisitions Management (AQM) intends to award a sole source contract to Remington Arms Company of 879 Remington Drive, Madison, NC 27025 for the procurement of 870 POL 12/14P MD BS SF SF shotguns for Diplomatic Security Service to support the Government mandated increase in the number of the U.S.M.C.’s Marine Security Group (MSG) at Embassies overseas and the increased numbers of Diplomatic Security agents worldwide. The 870s weapon system will ensure the continued protection of the Department of State personnel, facilities, and information, and is a critical component of the Department of State’s response to high threat environments.

3. A description of the supplies or services required to meet the Department’s need.

The Remington 870 shotgun has been certified and approved for agents of the Diplomatic Security Service and Marine Security Guards at U.S. Diplomatic Posts abroad. The weapons are used extensively in training for protective operations. Substitution of another weapon from another manufacturer could have a disastrous impact on protective operations where an agent may be forced to defend himself/herself and senior Department Officials with an unfamiliar weapon. The weapon must meet the following specifications:


• Manufactured and assembled exclusively in the US

• All steel receivers made from a single 8lb. block of ordnance grade steel from U.S. mined raw materials. The metal of the receiver when ready to be assembled shall measure between 60 and 90 on the Rockwell hardness scale. Aluminum is not as durable or as strong. The receiver shall have a parkerized finish. A blued finish is not as resistant to corrosion.

• The magazine tube shall be permanently attached to the receiver (brazed, silver soldered, or welded) a screw-in magazine tube is not as durable and reliable.

• Four shot magazine capacity tube. The tube must have the ability to unload without cycling the shells through the action. This is for safety reasons, the magazine must be able to be unloaded without the shells being chambered first.

• The barrel shall fit into the receiver and position off the ejector housing. The bolt shall positively lock into the barrel extension and provide reliable headshaking thus preventing a potentially dangerous situation when excessive headspace is present. The barrel shall also have a steel ball detent locking system to secure the barrel to the receiver. This prevents the barrel from loosening while being fired leading to safety issues.

• The barrel shall be 14” long and have a parkerized finish. A 14” barrel length is more maneuverable in confined spaces, buildings and vehicles. The barrel shall have a modified choke creating a predictable shot pattern at engagement distances. The barrel shall have a 3” 12 gauge chamber that accepts all 2 ¾ “and 3” 12 gauge shells. The barrel shall be made of “4140” ordnance grade U.S. mined steel. The piece of steel shall be formed into the final shape by cold hammer forging using “GFM” (German Forging Machinery), OR EQUAL Hammer forged barrels are by the nature of their design and the method of their manufacture able to prevent catastrophic failure (the barrel separating and/or disintegrating) should the barrel be obstructed when a round is fired . The metal of the barrel when ready to be assembled shall measure between 32 and 36 on the Rockwell hardness scale.

• There shall be a parkerized corrosion resistant finish on metal surfaces. A blued finish is not as resistant to corrosion or non-reflective.

• The trigger assembly shall be made of metal for durability, plastic trigger assemblies are used by competitors and the alignment tabs crack and break off rendering the weapon unserviceable and have a positive cross bolt safety which mechanically blocks the travel of the trigger. Competitors safeties are located on the upper rear of the receiver and do not block the trigger. The sear of the weapon shall be balanced and the firing pin shall be inertia driven that prevents discharge of the weapon until the action is closed and the trigger is pulled. This prevents an “out of battery” detonation of a shell that has an unfortunate habit of destroying the firearm and injuring the shooter. The safety shall be located behind the trigger. Competitors safeties are located on the upper rear of the receiver and do not block the trigger.

• The slide shall use non binding twin action bars to manipulate the action and they should be permanently attached to the forend tube by brazing. The rigidity of the permanently attached action bars enhances the reliability and the durability of the system.

• The stock and forend shall be made of a solid synthetic material that duplicates the weight and the dimensions of the factory wood stock. The stock shall have a sling attachment stud and textured gripping surfaces. The sling stud allows the attachment of DSS selected slings for retention of the weapon.

• The cap of the magazine tube shall have a sling attachment point and shall be finished in the same corrosion resistant coating as the rest of the firearm. The sling stud allows the attachment of DSS selected slings for retention of the weapon.
There's additional boilerplate after this, but I thought this section was an interesting read, as it talks in some detail about why the DSS prefers the 870 over its competitors (primarily the Mossberg 500, best as I can tell), calling out specific features. It's also interesting to see the exact configuration that the DSS prefers for defensive shotguns that need to be effective in vehicles and buildings. 12ga, 14" fixed Modified barrel, front bead sight, Parkerized, synthetic furniture, and a standard 4-round magazine; I would have gone for a polymer trigger plate if that was an option, but apart from that, the build seems perfect for the role.

any idea what year this was?
The devil danced as he went down, in the hail of arrows comin' Out on the wild Montana ground, Custer died a-runnin'.
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Synchronizor
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Re: Why the 870?

Post by Synchronizor »

Banshee wrote:any idea what year this was?
This year, just last spring. The J&A was posted March 27th, the contract was awarded March 31, and the notice was archived April 11. You can see more details and download the full text of the J&A from the federal archive page.

I have to say, the US Federal Government seems to love the 870. I've skimmed through everything archived over the last 12 months, and the only notice I could find relating to non-870 shotgun acquisition was a requisition on behalf of the Marine Corps Precision Weapons Team for 15 tricked-out Benelli M2s for 3-gun competitions. Even the Army's on the 870 bandwagon, they placed an order last fall for 245 new 870 MCSs.
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Banshee
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Re: Why the 870?

Post by Banshee »

Synchronizor wrote:
Banshee wrote:any idea what year this was?
This year, just last spring. The J&A was posted March 27th, the contract was awarded March 31, and the notice was archived April 11. You can see more details and download the full text of the J&A from the federal archive page.

I have to say, the US Federal Government seems to love the 870. I've skimmed through everything archived over the last 12 months, and the only notice I could find relating to non-870 shotgun acquisition was a requisition on behalf of the Marine Corps Precision Weapons Team for 15 tricked-out Benelli M2s for 3-gun competitions. Even the Army's on the 870 bandwagon, they placed an order last fall for 245 new 870 MCSs.
I thing is for sure, who ever wrote the requirements had the 870 in mind.. 8-)
The devil danced as he went down, in the hail of arrows comin' Out on the wild Montana ground, Custer died a-runnin'.
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Re: Why the 870?

Post by shootall »

I like the smoothness of the WingMaster action. I like where the safety is. I like all steel receiver . It is like a Chevy everybody makes parts and up grades.
I don't care for Browning or Ithaca they dump shells under your feet. Mossberg and Maverick both have less smooth actions but the 590 is a great gun. Winchesters have the best barrels IMHO but the alum receiver on the new ones and one action bar on the old one are a concern but I only know of one action bar failure and it was on an 870 , but the gun kept working. The nova looks to modern for me . Like said most are good guns where the 870 is a great gun but that is only an opinion.
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Re: Why the 870?

Post by shotgun »

I have a 870 express tactical I have upgraded to police 870 still the way it ejects extracts runs I think a mossberg 590 a 1 would be a better tactical choice. You got to love a shotgun you can put a bayonet on !
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cwebb
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Re: Why the 870?

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Synchronizer, thanks for posting that request.

Well I have an 870 now...SPS Turkey Predator.

Shooting this shotgun for the first time in three weeks.

I'll post a review as soon as I can.
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Re: Why the 870?

Post by Synchronizor »

cwebb wrote:Well I have an 870 now...SPS Turkey Predator.

Shooting this shotgun for the first time in three weeks.

I'll post a review as soon as I can.
The #81062 Super Magnum? Nice. Should be a pretty good choice for turkeys and other non-flying game. Switch the choke out, and it wouldn't be half-bad for defense either.

I actually just picked up a TG8030DBR red dot - basically the same thing as the TG8030DB on the 870 SPS Turkey/Predator, but with an integrated saddle mount rather than a rail mount system. So far I really like the setup; it makes for a really clear and quick sight picture that really doesn't obstruct peripheral vision as much as I thought it might, and features like the multi-color dot and see-through lens covers are neat. Only thing I didn't like so far were the rubber adjustment cap retainers/seals, but they come off easy, and can be replaced with o-rings. Looking forward to trying it out at the range with some slugs.
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Re: Why the 870?

Post by Synchronizor »

shotgun wrote:I have a 870 express tactical I have upgraded to police 870 still the way it ejects extracts runs I think a mossberg 590 a 1 would be a better tactical choice. You got to love a shotgun you can put a bayonet on !
The 870 is a military shotgun too! It was wearing bayonets and fighting wars before the 590 was even introduced.
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cwebb
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Re: Why the 870?

Post by cwebb »

Synchronizor wrote:
cwebb wrote:Well I have an 870 now...SPS Turkey Predator.

Shooting this shotgun for the first time in three weeks.

I'll post a review as soon as I can.
The #81062 Super Magnum? Nice. Should be a pretty good choice for turkeys and other non-flying game. Switch the choke out, and it wouldn't be half-bad for defense either.

I actually just picked up a TG8030DBR red dot - basically the same thing as the TG8030DB on the 870 SPS Turkey/Predator, but with an integrated saddle mount rather than a rail mount system. So far I really like the setup; it makes for a really clear and quick sight picture that really doesn't obstruct peripheral vision as much as I thought it might, and features like the multi-color dot and see-through lens covers are neat. Only thing I didn't like so far were the rubber adjustment cap retainers/seals, but they come off easy, and can be replaced with o-rings. Looking forward to trying it out at the range with some slugs.
I'm an old fan of super magnum loads for hunting so I had to have one.

Yeah, I was initially skeptical about the optic but it's a super fast sight. Not as cool looking as my T1 but...fast is fast.

Oh and the stock is excellent. Very 70s bench rest looking but it handles exceptionally well.
Granted I haven't shot it yet but dry firing with it I know it will be a pleasure to shoot.

More soon!
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