Shot gun for bear defense

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The wife and I like to fish and camp way out in the boonies (4x4 access lakes, etc). I always carry my 12 gauge with us. Just wondering if anyone has any comments, critiques etc on my "system."

When just driving I obey the law where I live and the gun is unloaded. When we get to where we are going to camp, or if we are going for a stroll in the bush, etc I load up the tube, nothing in the chamber, and carry it with the safety off. My rationale is I don't feel safe walking around with one in the pipe even if the safety is on, if need be I can chamber a round in a fraction of a second and be on target in not much more time than this, and I leave the safety off as, from my experience, if there is one thing you'll forget to do in a high stress situation is forget to disengage the safety! I also carry bear spray on my belt as another "use of force" option.

The last round I feed in the tube (1st on to be chambered if I charge the firearm) is a 3" 00 buck. My rationale is if I need to take an emergency shot with little time to aim I might miss with a slug. I figure with the 00 buck there is a good chance that some of the pellets will make contact, and hopefully slow/stun the animal. The subsequent rounds are all 3" magnum slugs. All ammo is Federal Power Shock.

The gun is a bit heavy and cumbersome to carry when walking for a while. The 870 is great around camp etc but I'm not a huge fan of carrying it for hours and hours. I'm considering buying a short pistol grip "defender" style 12 gauge. Does anyone have an opinion on this? I've never shot one, but I've talked to guys who have and I'm sure I could handle the recoil in my wrist. I know these guns are not nearly as accurate, but sometime I leave the 870 behind as it's just too big/heavy say if we take our quad out, or go for a hike etc.

I would probably not put 3" magnum slugs in one of these guns. 2 and 3/4 would probably be a better choice as if I break my wrist on the 1st shot I'm not of much use now!

I'm curious what ya'll carry in bear country, type of ammo you use, etc. And for the record I have NO desire to shoot a bear minding it's own business, and we have encountered many black and grizzly bears at a distance with no issues. However, if for whatever reason a bear decides that we'd make a tasty snack, and it's me/us or the bear, then I would shoot without hesitation.

[Synchronizor]

When just driving I obey the law where I live and the gun is unloaded. When we get to where we are going to camp, or if we are going for a stroll in the bush, etc I load up the tube, nothing in the chamber, and carry it with the safety off. My rationale is I don't feel safe walking around with one in the pipe even if the safety is on, if need be I can chamber a round in a fraction of a second and be on target in not much more time than this, and I leave the safety off as, from my experience, if there is one thing you'll forget to do in a high stress situation is forget to disengage the safety! I also carry bear spray on my belt as another "use of force" option.

Just curious, do you carry the gun cocked and locked, or do you drop the hammer on the empty chamber to unlock the action?

The gun is a bit heavy and cumbersome to carry when walking for a while. The 870 is great around camp etc but I'm not a huge fan of carrying it for hours and hours. I'm considering buying a short pistol grip "defender" style 12 gauge. Does anyone have an opinion on this? I've never shot one, but I've talked to guys who have and I'm sure I could handle the recoil in my wrist. I know these guns are not nearly as accurate, but sometime I leave the 870 behind as it's just too big/heavy say if we take our quad out, or go for a hike etc.

The real problem with pistol-grip-only shotguns is that they're very difficult to make quick and accurate shots with, especially under stress. Inherently, they're as accurate as any other shotgun with the same barrel & choke, but quickly and consistently drawing a bead on something is much easier with a stock braced against your shoulder and a practiced stance & cheek weld that places your eye at the same position each time. With just a pistol grip, you have to hold the shotgun out at arm's length to be able to aim without knocking teeth out when you pull the trigger. With a 7+ pound shotgun, this doesn't make for a very steady or consistent stance even when you're not facing down a bear.

Is it the weight of your gun that's primarily bugging you, or the size/shape? If it's the length of the stock that makes it awkward to carry and store, you could consider a folding stock. If it's just the weight of the thing, how much does your gun weigh loaded & unloaded? I don't know what kind of build you use for woods defense, but with just the parts I have on hand, I can put together a stripped-down 18.5" 870 with a lightweight Express polymer stock and a quality recoil pad that's barely over 6.5 pounds unloaded. I can make that about 9 ounces lighter by changing the stock out for my Hogue pistol grip, but I don't think it'd be worth the trade-off.

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To unlock the action I always use the action bar release...I believe that is the right term...the button just ahead of the trigger guard. I doubt it is bad for the gun to dry fire it once in a while, I just like using the action bar release 100% of the time. Opps maybe I misread your question...I carry it with the action locked so you need to press the action bar lock to chamber a round. I don't think I'd like the action released when carrying it...just my preference.

I'll have to double check my PAL manual, but I dont believe it's against the law to transport the gun unloaded with the side saddle full of shells (6 total). That's what I do as if needed I could emergency load 1 round very fast via the ejection port. Once we are around camp I fill up the tube with 00 buck last and slugs behind it. Depending what kind of mood I'm in sometimes I'll top the side saddle back up but generally I leave it empty and carry an extra box in my backpack. It's quick and easy when we are leaving to unlaod the tube and put the rounds in the side saddle.

As far as the size and weight goes...I guess it's primarily the size that can be an issue carrying it for a ways. I don't have a sling for as I find they just get in my way, but it would make carrying a lot easier. I'm not sure what it weighs loaded/unloaded. I get what you're saying about a pistol grip being less accurate, but soemtimes bringing the full size 870 is just not an option. For example we fish some pretty remote, middle of nowhere in the mountains, lakes in our canoe. Sometimes we will beach it on shore away from camp for pee breaks, etc. We have never been confronted by a bear, but have often found fresh scat, grizzly and black prints nearby, etc. Enough to pucker you up! I never bring the 870 in the canoe as it's just too damn big/akaward, instead I just carry my bear spray.

For such applications I'd like to buy something like this which somes with a waterproof/floating case.

http://www.cabelas.ca/product/3982/moss ... hotgun-kit

Dlask also has a sweet modified 870 "shorty" but it is another $300

http://dlaskarms.com/collections/870-sh ... 870-shorty

[Synchronizor]

As far as the size and weight goes...I guess it's primarily the size that can be an issue carrying it for a ways. I don't have a sling for as I find they just get in my way, but it would make carrying a lot easier. I'm not sure what it weighs loaded/unloaded. I get what you're saying about a pistol grip being less accurate, but soemtimes bringing the full size 870 is just not an option. For example we fish some pretty remote, middle of nowhere in the mountains, lakes in our canoe. Sometimes we will beach it on shore away from camp for pee breaks, etc. We have never been confronted by a bear, but have often found fresh scat, grizzly and black prints nearby, etc. Enough to pucker you up! I never bring the 870 in the canoe as it's just too damn big/akaward, instead I just carry my bear spray.

Have you considered a folding stock? For transportation & storage, it would let you make the gun about as short as a pistol grip alone would, but when you actually needed to use the thing, you can unfold it in seconds and shoot with a proper stock. Might not be as comfortable, simple, or lightweight as a fixed stock, but it would certainly beat just a pistol grip.

For such applications I'd like to buy something like this which somes with a waterproof/floating case.

http://www.cabelas.ca/product/3982/moss ... hotgun-kit

I'll bet you could whip up something similar for your current shotgun with some large-diameter pipe or tubing for a lot less than $530.

Dlask also has a sweet modified 870 "shorty" but it is another $300

http://dlaskarms.com/collections/870-sh ... 870-shorty

Can't you just buy a short barrel for your current 870 since you're in Canada? Or do you have one of the newer Tactical models with the long single-piece 6-round magazine tube?

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As far as the folding stock goes, I do agree that it would be better than just a pistol grip. However I really like my 870 the way it is set up now and I kind of just want to leave it the way it is, and have another 12 gauge for quading, fishing etc out in the middle of nowhere. My current 870 has a Mesa TActical LEO stock on it which is AWESOME! With the recoil buffer it makes 3" mag slugs feel like target loads

http://mesatactical.com/products/leo-te ... 870-12-ga/

Also, to be perfectly honest, I'm just looking for reasons to justify buying another shotgun because I fricken love them I could modify mine and it would be just fine, but then I won't have a reason to buy another one.

So the pistol grip Mosberg 500: I've wanted one for a while but true they are not very accurate if you need to shoot something running towards you. A bear, zombies, etc. What do you think about putting a flashlight/laser combo on it? I've seen some spiffy ones by Surefire, Streamlight, etc. However I'm not sure if the gun would fit in the provided case with such accessories on it.

Then there's the Dlask "shorty." To be honest I just think it looks retarded and I don't really care for it. Plus it's quite pricey. And yes, my 870 is one of the newer ones with the single piece 6 shot tube.

I'm leaning towards the Mossberg and if it doesnt work out to my liking for a bush gun I'll keep it for the inevitable zombie apolocase

[Synchronizor]

Well, if you specifically want to buy another shotgun, go for it.

Mossbergs are decent shotguns, but I will point out that some of their controls are different from those of an 870, and the tang safety & rear-mounted slide release don't work quite as well with a pistol grip. Plenty of folks own both 870s and Mossberg 500s, and don't seem to have trouble switching between them, but if you've really gotten used to working your 870, getting a second shotgun with a different control setup might mess you up under stress - especially if that second shotgun is an emergency weapon that you don't shoot often. You'll probably be fine as long as you put in some practice time, but it's something to think about.

As for the light/laser, are you looking at that as a potential aiming aid? Because I personally wouldn't trust myself to be able to effectively find a little dot of light and hold it on a bear long enough to pull the trigger while it was charging me - especially in full daylight.

Anyway, I couldn't tell you if they would still allow the gun to fit into the storage tube without examining it in person. I'd bet you could make it work though, maybe by trimming the tube's liner (if it has one), or by going with a light/laser setup that you can quickly take off for storage.

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Good stuff to think about. I've never fired a 500 and I didnt know the slide release was different, I thought it was just the different safety. I'll have to manipulate one in a gun shop a bit and see how I like it before I buy one.

Haha yes I thinking of using the laser as an aiming aid, lol! It worked for The Predator - why not me? You are right...time and circumstances are unlikely to afford me the opportunity to use a laser sight on a charging animal. I just think they look cool

Most of the time when we are out in the bush I have my 870 with me anyway. The possible purchase of a "shorty" would just be for the odd time we were away from camp quading, fishing, etc.

[Synchronizor]

Good stuff to think about. I've never fired a 500 and I didnt know the slide release was different, I thought it was just the different safety. I'll have to manipulate one in a gun shop a bit and see how I like it before I buy one.

That'd be smart. If at all possible, find a pistol-grip model to play with, because that really does change up how a Mossberg 500's controls are manipulated. Mossberg makes quite a few pistol-grip only models, so it shouldn't be too tough.

[DaveC]

I cannot comment on British Columbia, but I will say that statistically in Alaska far more people are killed by feral dogs than bears.

Admittedly, being mauled to death by a bear is about one of the worst ways to go I can think of...

A hapless hiker once had a bear sitting on his head and shoulders leisurely gnawing chunks out of his buttocks, and he was lucky to survive, albeit disfigured and crippled for life. I'm familiar with another Kodiak case where the victim, a woman, was permanently blinded by the bruin.

Take car out there in them woods! I think your shotgun idea is a good one. Thanks for posting the thread.

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Thanks for that DaveC. Interesting that in Alaska more people are killed by feral dogs than bears This is a bit off topic but, whenever I walk our two (little) dogs I always use my "tactical" dog leash I made. Basically it's a regular retractable leash that I attached a dog spray holster (well, it's actually an old MK3 pepperspray holster I nolonger use for work) to. I was finding I would always forget to grab the dog spray and it just sat in a drawer most of the time. Now it's always on me. I also carry a folding knife just incase the spray is not going to cut it. I often walk our dogs in the woods, hiking trails etc.

Anyway, my general motto is "I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it!" So I tend to overpack/prepare wherever I go, and often get teased about it by my spouse, coworkers, etc. However when s**t goes sideways I'm usually that guy who is prepared with the necessary tools on hand.

I'm going to buy that Moss.500 for situations where my 870 is just too big/cumbersome. Like in our canoe, etc.