00BS velocity for HD

Tactical, combat, military, law enforcement and home defense use of a Remington 870 shotgun.
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shotglass
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00BS velocity for HD

Post by shotglass » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:30 am

I'm wanting to start a debate about the pros and cons of fast vs slow velocity for 2 3/4" 00 buck shot (9 pellet) for home defense. Winchester "military" is listed at 1325 fps, Federal Premium Personal Defense is listed at 1145 fps. These are just two examples of how much fps can vary. And I'd like to only talk about off the shelf ammo, hand loads would be a whole different ball game.
I'd like a civil debate about faster vs slower:
1) Personal opinion
2) Scientific data
3) Personal experience
What do you guys think is the better or best ammo for HD?

BurstBarrel
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Re: 00BS velocity for HD

Post by BurstBarrel » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:12 am

shotglass wrote:I'm wanting to start a debate about the pros and cons of fast vs slow velocity for 2 3/4" 00 buck shot (9 pellet) for home defense. Winchester "military" is listed at 1325 fps, Federal Premium Personal Defense is listed at 1145 fps. These are just two examples of how much fps can vary. And I'd like to only talk able off the shelf ammo, hand loads would be a whole different ball game.
I'd like a civil debate about faster vs slower:
1) Personal opinion
2) Scientific data
3) Personal experience
What do you guys think is the better or best ammo for HD?
I think 1145 fps is the better velocity because the speed of sound and the loud crack is about 1126 fps so from my own chronograph tests and clay target shooting this holds true. 00 buckshot with 8 or 9 pellets at 1145 is more than enough and recoil is a little less.

Indoors range isn't an issue like outdoors may be, then the higher velocity would help and noise would be less bothersome.
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Synchronizor
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Re: 00BS velocity for HD

Post by Synchronizor » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:11 am

My opinion is that slower is generally better for 00B HD loads. There are several reasons for this.

The big one is recoil. Free recoil energy is proportional to the square of ejecta momentum (mass of what comes out of the barrel times the speed at which it does so). Ejecta mass includes powder and wadding, but the shot tends to be the biggest source of momentum in shotgun loads. Since there is an exponential relationship at play here, even a couple hundred FPS or so can make a significant difference. Using the speeds you gave as an example, 1145^2/1325^2=.747, meaning that the same amount of shot at 1145 FPS will only contribute about 3/4 the recoil energy that the same amount of shot at 1325 FPS would. Again, this is rough napkin math that doesn't take wadding/buffering or powder gasses into consideration, but it should get the idea across.

Lower velocity can also help patterning. Though differences in powders and wads can complicate things, generally speaking, a load with a lower muzzle velocity will also have a lower peak acceleration while inside the barrel. This means less set-back force on the pellets during firing, and less deformation as a result. Rounder pellets fly straighter and more consistently than deformed pellets. Harder or plated pellets, good wads, and the use of buffer material can also help reduce pellet deformation independently of speed, but lower-velocity buckshot will still tend to give better patterns. Pellet deformation also works against deep & consistent penetration, too (though some deformation also tends to happen upon impact, especially with softer pellets).

I'm not sure about noise level. I would expect that for a short-range shot in a confined space, the muzzle blast will be the main source of noise, not the supersonic crack (which you would probably still get with a muzzle velocity of 1145 FPS, anyway). Muzzle blast depends on more than velocity; powder burn characteristics and barrel length are also major players. I once let off a supersonic (rated at 1305 FPS from a 30" barrel, but probably 1250 - 1275 FPS from my gun) 1 1/4-ounce load from an 18.5" barrel without ear protection (I was bouncing between shooting and taking notes for a review, and forgot to replace my muffs when I stood up to take another shot). Afterward, I had temporary partial hearing loss and a high-pitched whine in my ears; much like the way it's portrayed in movies and TV, though it didn't wear off in a few seconds, more like 10 minutes or so. That was outdoors, with nothing but a tree and a chain-link fence nearby to bounce the sound back. I didn't follow that up with a slower load to see if there was a difference, but in an enclosed space like a bedroom or hallway, I would imagine that any buckshot load would be pretty hard on the senses. Some have recommended keeping electronic shooting muffs next to HD firearms, and I think that's a good idea.

There are downsides to reduced velocity though. Penetration depends on both sectional density and velocity. 00B has decent sectional density (for buckshot, at least), and shouldn't have much trouble penetrating a human-shaped predator at speeds in the 1100 FPS range (for smaller sizes like #4B, I prefer higher velocities to ensure penetration). However, spheres are very poor shapes from a ballistic standpoint, and lose velocity rapidly in flight, so more initial speed is desirable if longer-range effectiveness may be needed (as with military applications). Extra initial velocity is also helpful for reaching through barriers.

On the other hand, for a shot that's merely traveling across a room or through a hollow-core interior door, extra range and penetration is probably unnecessary. I think overpenetration is worried about more than it really should be in HD; buckshot pellets lose their lethality quickly through walls, or even air. Plus, since it's your home turf, you have the ability to make plans regarding your defensive position & field of fire. Still, plans don't always work out as intended, and there have been cases with police shootings where the use of full-power 00B at close range resulted in pass-throughs that went on to wound bystanders or fellow officers. A lower velocity that gives pellets enough energy to penetrate through a human, but not much more beyond that, can be beneficial so long as you can be reasonably confident about what shots you expect to make. If you are living on extended property, or anticipate that you might need to reach through things like solid doors or car windshields, I would go for more velocity. The safest thing you can do in a gunfight is end it as quickly as possible.

Slugnuts
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Re: 00BS velocity for HD

Post by Slugnuts » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:07 pm

Hi slugnuts here new member , i like fedral 1145bfps buckshot just for kisks i shot 2x4 at 20 feet and it blew a hole right thru , that should tell the story about 1145 for hd plenty of power for winter clothes ect...

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