Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

[MStarmer]

Yeah i've thought about it all, ammo choice and changovers. I hate to admit it, but i'd forgot some of the important lessons learned in the Military. We only used shotguns for breaching and close quarters situations, otherwise we carried an M4 or M16A2 w/wo M203's and some heavier weapons. But maily it's all kinda the same, keeping your weapon loaded, and if necessary, doing ammo changes. So yeah, i appreciate ya'll kinda tellin me to think about it, and i did. If i ever do have a HD situation, i want all 00 Buck in my mag, and a couple slugs and then 00 Buck on my sidesaddle. I'm goin shooting this weekend with my brother and get some much needed trigger time.
Thanks for all the advice, i took it well--lol.

I think that is a solid plan.

I don't think there is anything wrong with all buck or all slugs depending on your need but mixing ammo in the mag for H/D is probably the last thing I would be thinking about. Military and LE I can see the first couple or rounds breaching and then some 00 Buck if you had to make entry or something. Kind of like people keeping shot rounds in the first one or two cylinders of a wheelgun in snake country. For me 00buck in the gun, 2 slugs and 4 more 00 buck on the saddle.

That's what makes these things fill so many rolls. Different ammo for HD, less lethal, bear country, hunting etc...

[Synchronizor]

Military and LE I can see the first couple or rounds breaching and then some 00 Buck if you had to make entry or something. Kind of like people keeping shot rounds in the first one or two cylinders of a wheelgun in snake country.

As far as I've heard, LE and military never mix ammo for any reason. Less-lethal ammo is used in separate, clearly-marked guns for obvious reasons.

For breaching, the soldier or officer will transition to a different weapon after the door is open.

Other members here with LE or military experience can let me know if I'm wrong.

[reeps]

On a side note, I have tried out four different types of less lethal ammo, and all of them have zero recoil. I was able to get off 6 rounds almost instantaneously and hit a target 30 feet a way each time.

[Automag]

As far as I've heard, LE and military never mix ammo for any reason. Less-lethal ammo is used in separate, clearly-marked guns for obvious reasons.

You are absolutely right about your explanation of LE and Military not mixing ammo, and having a non-lethal shotgun as well as a normal shotgun. In the military we never mixed ammo in an M4 for example. We carried six 30 rd mags of 5.56 (one mag in the weapon at all times). We always had a shotgun for breaching and other purposes. We did not have a non-lethal shotgun at that time. Niether did Law Enforcement. But tactics change and evolve. For example the military has had to deal with urban combat and had to evolve it's tactics. The same is true now for LE Officers, with all the escalating urban violence. They now have the choice of using a non-lethal shotgun, and making it distinguishable from the lethal shotguns they carry, it just makes sense in the times we live in now. So yes you're absolutely right about mixing ammo being a bad idea, especially in a HD shotgun. Thats why i've already stated that i've changed my way of thinking in that matter, it was a bad idea to have a mixed load in my 870, and others should take heed to that as well.
I appreciate your good information on this topic. It's a good lesson for all who have a HD weapon, especially a shotgun.

[MStarmer]

I'm not saying either do, I'm just saying I could understand the reasoning if they did. Situational dynamics change and sometimes you may have to go with what you have, if I took a door off I could still engage hostiles with breaching rounds but I'd rather have something else. But alas I don't have to take doors off and where I am employed it would take a lot more than breaching rounds to do it.

But I digress, clearly marked shotguns can still fire lethal rounds if loaded with such. Orange shotguns do not guarantee less lethal results, neither do less than lethal rounds. Got me on a rant now, Less lethal is just that LESS, many things can still prove lethal. LVNR, Tasers (although I don't think any have actually been contributed solely to the taser), positional asphyxia etc.

American COP magazine from March/April 2011 has a good article under Officer Survival. One shotgun, many uses, does not advocate orange or pink guns. Starts on Page 22 if anyone is interested.

http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMG ... op/ACMA11/

[Synchronizor]

But I digress, clearly marked shotguns can still fire lethal rounds if loaded with such. Orange shotguns do not guarantee less lethal results, neither do less than lethal rounds. Got me on a rant now, Less lethal is just that LESS, many things can still prove lethal. LVNR, Tasers (although I don't think any have actually been contributed solely to the taser), positional asphyxia etc.

Oh, absolutely. I'll always remember a story I saw on TV when I was young where a film student ended up in the hospital after being hit at close range with the plastic wad from a homemade "blank" shell. In the video, the gun goes off and the kid just goes down like a sack of potatoes. Back in the 80's, actor Jon-Erik Hexum managed to kill himself with a .44 Magnum blank cartridge. Anything out of a real firearm can kill under the right circumstances.

For the record though, shotguns and other firearms can be modified to only fire less-lethal ammunition, but it requires specifically-designed less-lethal rounds.

American COP magazine from March/April 2011 has a good article under Officer Survival. One shotgun, many uses, does not advocate orange or pink guns.

I don't think the author of that article understands the reason for clearly-marked, designated less-lethal weapons. When less-lethal measures are deployed en masse for things like crowd control, they're backed up by other guns loaded with real, fully-lethal ammo in case things get out of hand. It's easy to talk about proper communication and ammo checks in a magazine article (and those practices are important, of course), but things get more chaotic during a real encounter where a mix-up could easily lead to a dead officer, or a dead college kid who just got too excited about something stupid like fur or organic food.

[The_DevinG]

So, I just joined this forum as I just got a Remington 870 for HD and for hunting.
But, to keep with the topic on this thread.

I did see some stuff about the experimental rounds, kinda interesting, using wax + bird-shot to make a "frangible" slug.

But, the reason why I would suggest NOT using this for home defense is this: I have seen at least one video where they had loaded one of these wax + bird-shot rounds, walked over to shoot, and it blew up in their face. Luckily the guy was not hurt, what happened was, the slug came loose from the shell, (because its wax slug, not sealed in the shell and soft, therefore it slipped out) it went 3/4 of the way down the barrel (right about where the factory mag tube ends) and stuck. When he fired the powder ignited, and essentially created a pipe bomb inside the gun barrel, and it blew up right close to the end of the barrel. Destroyed the barrel and nothing else, surprisingly, he didnt get hurt, his gun wasnt messed up (other than barrel).

That's the main reason why I wouldn't use these wax + Bird-shot "slugs". Because it fell out after the gun being moved around while he was walking to the range. It is fine to mess with wax slugs, as long as you chamber them ONLY right when you are ready to shoot and the gun is already aiming in the general target direction.

Anyways, what is the cost for a box of 00 or 04 buckshot. Planning on picking some up next time I see it.
Just need to get another (shorter) barrel and +2 or +3 mag tube extension for my gun and I'm all set. Oh, and probably a flashlight.

[Pigiron]

I start with what I need to finish the job at hand. Granted I have a selection in my side saddle, but it's #1 Buck in the magazine.

[Automag]

I start with what I need to finish the job at hand. Granted I have a selection in my side saddle, but it's #1 Buck in the magazine.

I have the same philosiphy on starting and finishing the job at hand. I also have 50 rds of 3" #1 Buck on my shelf, as well as 3" 00 Buck. I keep that in stock and pick some up when i see it for a good price, but i only keep that in stock in case SHTF in our Country and we have only ourselves to defend our property and lives. I've talked to numerous experts, and people i trust and respect about the best load for my HD situation. I live in a Mobile Home, and if i use 3" 00 Buck (magnum/non-magnum) i'm likely to go right through my wall and hit the trailer next to me, or accross the street, using #1 causing even more danger. Anyway, i've been advised to just use 2 3/4" Buck for My Situation. Everybodys situation is different; say you live in a regular house with thick walls and or brick siding. In that case, you could use whatever you want to, as long as you don't mind more recoil and can still shoot quickly and accurately.
I've found that i can shoot 2 3/4" Buck quickly and accurately in the field and at the range, this makes me confident in the round i keep in my magazine for HD. Thesedays 2 3/4" 00 Buckshot has become the "standard" in HD situations, it's deadly and you can finish what you start, but wont travel far enough to accidently hit your neighbors if you miss. Of course, this is my choice and opinion. I'm not knocking you choice of ammo, not at all, ammo choices are always up to individual Gun owner.

[navyshooter]

I use 00 buck in my home defense shotgun, but I think #4 buck would work. These were shot out of this 870




#4 buck at 5 yards


at 7 yards


and at 10 yards
Shots outside of 30 feet would be rare inside most homes I'd think.