Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Tactical, combat, military, law enforcement and home defense use of a Remington 870 shotgun.
cpuJesse
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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by cpuJesse » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:15 pm

EZTundra77 wrote:I got a nice deal on Remington 3" 000 buck. 10 pellets I think. There's too many rooms in my house with my girls inside to warrant using slugs. I have slugs on hand for outdoor use, where I can see whats beyonf the target. I got a box of 600 gr. Brehneke Spec Forces. max penetration. They are supposed to go through engine blocks. I'm trying to find someone who will let me kill their engine. Suprisingly...no takers yet.
record that if you ever do!

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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by NH870 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:23 pm

Using 2 /34" OO reduced recoil buckshot with either 8 or 9 pellets depending on manufacture. I was told and taught that this is what should be used in a home defensive situation. I want to stop what is coming at me. I also have a 9mm Beretta 92fs m9a1 as backup. just my ..2cents..

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Vitaly
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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by Vitaly » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:25 pm

NH870 wrote:Using 2 /34" OO reduced recoil buckshot with either 8 or 9 pellets depending on manufacture. I was told and taught that this is what should be used in a home defensive situation. I want to stop what is coming at me. I also have a 9mm Beretta 92fs m9a1 as backup. just my ..2cents..
Good choice!
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Carlo1137
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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by Carlo1137 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:15 am

For my home defense, I have my 870 loaded with Winchester X 2 3/4 00' buck. For side arm I have my P226 chambered in .357 sig. I can always grab my AK in 7.62x39 but that would be over kill and I'm scared it will over penetrate and hit my neighbors! :oops:
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DaveC
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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by DaveC » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:00 pm

My ammunition selection when I lived in a sub-urban/sprawl part of Texas was low-recoil 00 buckshot. Federal low-recoil patterns like you would not believe in my Mossberg-mfr. cylinder bore barrel on my Remington 870 express...

Now I live in a big city in a fairly dense population zone. Accordingly, I've switched to Federal PD No.4 buck, which is what a number of urban law enforcement agencies in Texas used to issue. I do also have an old ca.1983 Howa/S&W 3000 police riot gun with wood stock furniture that I keep loaded with Remington No.1 buck. I have *never ever* seen Federal's LE No.1 buck load for sale to civilians in Texas. Believe me, I've looked high and low.

I'm old enough to have a box of the personal defense ammo using #4 birdshot that was put out by Federal with the "rapid opening" pattern. If it was #2 or BBs, I might consider it for inside-the-house use.
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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by Kentactic » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:45 am

Carlo1137 wrote:For my home defense, I have my 870 loaded with Winchester X 2 3/4 00' buck. For side arm I have my P226 chambered in .357 sig. I can always grab my AK in 7.62x39 but that would be over kill and I'm scared it will over penetrate and hit my neighbors! :oops:

Im not certain how the 7.62X39 fairs but i know the 5.56 has quite a bit less penetration then 00 buck due to the velocity and fragmentation cause by that. Your pistol also has quite a bit more penetration then youd think also because of a low velocity heavy projectile.

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Carlo1137
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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by Carlo1137 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:02 pm

Kentactic wrote:
Carlo1137 wrote:For my home defense, I have my 870 loaded with Winchester X 2 3/4 00' buck. For side arm I have my P226 chambered in .357 sig. I can always grab my AK in 7.62x39 but that would be over kill and I'm scared it will over penetrate and hit my neighbors! :oops:

Im not certain how the 7.62X39 fairs but i know the 5.56 has quite a bit less penetration then 00 buck due to the velocity and fragmentation cause by that. Your pistol also has quite a bit more penetration then youd think also because of a low velocity heavy projectile.

For sure, the .357 sig has more penetration but I don't think it will travel as far as the rifle. (Maybe I'm wrong) On a plus side I did change my side arm to a Sig P220. So I'm using .45 acp now. :D and I keep the P226 in the safe now.
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Banshee
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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by Banshee » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:24 pm

I use Hornady TAP 00 Buck in my HD shotgun
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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by Klaus Kinski » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:05 am

I have to admit I don't have a home defense plan at all and my guns are in a safe. Home defense is not a big thing in Germany.

I would highly recommend birdshot though with some slugs as backup in a holder attached to the gun.

Slugs tend to ricochet. If you have heard the whining of a ricochet slug going by that is an experience that you won't forget easily. In close quarters as in a house that is highly dangerous, especially if other family members are in the house.
So does buckshot a lot more than birdshot.

But mainly: It is a lot easier to hit with birdshot than with slugs. If you are proficient with your shotgun in a classical way, meaning that the LOP fits you exactly and you have trained trap/skeet or simply experience in hunting you don't need to aim. That is the whole (traditional) point of a shotgun after all.
I use 3,0mm birdshot (that is No. 4 I think) for nearly all hunting purposes. Maybe you could go a little higher towards 4,0mm (No. 1). But I wouldn't go higher. Bigger pellets mean a lot less pellets in a cartridge and therefore a smaller area that is covered in shot if you shoot. Also the target area is covered a lot less densely (sorry, it's hard to explain in English).

That means you have to waste time aiming instead of shooting as a mere reaction which is the classic use of a shotgun as we in Europe are trained to use it.
Blackrock wrote:The U.S. Army has done several studies as has the F.B.I. To nutshell their conclusions: Under 21 feet the damage done to a humanoid by birdshot, slugs or 00 is hard to differentiate. Bird shot will dump it's energy very quickly and not over penetrate.
That says it all really. If it goes on to the outside that may be a different matter but then you should have time to load the backup slugs.

In a nutshell I would recommend birdshot and a well fitting LOP. Especially the LOP is being neglected far too often when talking about shotgun use.

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Re: Home defense: Bird shot, Buck shot or Slugs ?

Post by Kentactic » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:22 pm

How does birdshot do through the couch the bad guy has taken cover behind and is now spraying his AK at you from behind?

Using Trap as a reference to home defense tactics or setup is bad news. Go swing that 28'' barrel in the house. Also the patterns a great deal smaller at 10ft then it is at 20 yards. Make sure you aim the gun.

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