Options for installing an UNDER the barrel light...

Tactical, combat, military, law enforcement and home defense use of a Remington 870 shotgun.
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Reaper
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Re: Options for installing an UNDER the barrel light...

Post by Reaper » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:16 am

My tri-rail looks almost exactly like the ones listed at the top of the page but is more closed with less of a gap between the hex head bolts. I bought mine off Ebay, I believe is was about $13 with free shipping a couple of months ago.

I'm not sure how to post a link to Ebay. I checked my purchase history and this was bought from seller lasportsfans2010. They are currently available now for $13.25 with free shipping. No brand name just generic shotgun tri-rail mount.

Scarab
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Re: Options for installing an UNDER the barrel light...

Post by Scarab » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:55 pm

Don't kill me but I ended up going with the Remington Versa Max Tactical. Got it for a GREAT DEAL brand new at Dicks Sporting Goods. It comes with barrel/magazin rail so let's talk flashlights?

What is your opinions on the LUMENS required to dazzle intruders? Is 600 overkill?

Scarab

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Synchronizor
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Re: Options for installing an UNDER the barrel light...

Post by Synchronizor » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:13 am

I light my entire kitchen with 1200 lumens. For a weapon light, I'd think 600 would do a lot more than "dazzle"

Understand (if you don't already) that a lumen rating alone isn't the whole story. Lux - lumens per square meter - is a better measure of light intensity. The lux you get from a certain number of lumens depends on distance and the shape of the beam.

Scarab
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Re: Options for installing an UNDER the barrel light...

Post by Scarab » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:12 pm

OK, so, right or wrong, here was my though process...

The longest possible distance in my house would be about 7 yards. That's a very small distance if you're are suddenly charged by the intruder. AIMING, even with a shotgun, takes time. With a flashlight and a laser I don't need to even aim, just raise the shotgun (if it wasn't already) see the laser dot appear on the intruder's torso and pull the trigger. No need to close an eye and aim down the bead sight.

A laser is an instant indicator of being on target even with both eyes open on no aiming.

I'm looking at getting the Streamlight TLR-2 HL (spread beam light for clearing an area (as opposed to a focused beam), and a red laser). So a light for ID and a laser for instant-on-target knowlege.

This is my theory. Please feel free to discuss and debate that pros and cons of my theory with me but please be nice. We're all after the same thing here and I will take all information and knowledge into account.

Thanks,

Scarab

tekrsq
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Re: Options for installing an UNDER the barrel light...

Post by tekrsq » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:24 pm

I'm not criticizing you, so please do not take it that way, and if I'm wrong about you, please correct me. It appears you are probably not trained in clearing structures. I have a pet peave about that. While it isn't hard, it does require a certain amount of "technique" and "mental prep", and it's slightly different with a long gun as opposed to a pistol....especially in quarters as close as 7 yds.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do is protect your position, and call the PD. I know there are all sorts of variables like response time, location in the house, location of loved ones in the house, etc, etc. If you need to advance on a subject to protect a life, all bets are off.

The reason for this is in some states if you go looking for trouble, find it, and kill him; you could very likely be the one in front of the judge, and in debt up to your ass trying to defend yourself. That's at best. At worst, you could end up the dead one. If you defend your position, he comes to you, and you kill him, it's likely called self defense. Know your local laws. Some states will still give you grief if you COULD HAVE removed yourself from the situation, but did not, which resulted in a terd getting killed. Remember, criminals have more rights than you. Not to mention all the scumbag lawyers looking for a wrongful death settlement. Defend yourself and your family, but let the "professionals" (and I use that term loosely I'm afraid) go get the bad guy. But like I said, if you have to advance on a subject to protect another life, all bets are off.

Overall, I think you are thinking in the right direction. I have a light/laser on my HD shotguns for the same reason, but primarily for my wife to aim at the bedroom door if I am not home. While I am trained to clear a structure with pistols, shotguns, and rifles, I will take my pistol 99% of the time.

Try an experiment. Take a 2x4 about the length of you weapon, hang it by your side, have a friend stand 7 yds from you, start to charge you, and see how fast you can get that weapon into firing position. You will be surprised how fast an average person can cover 21 ft. DO NOT DO THIS WITH A REAL WEAPON !!!!

Scarab
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Re: Options for installing an UNDER the barrel light...

Post by Scarab » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:55 pm

I'm prior Navy but was never trained in the manner you describe. I was an Aircrewmen (H-3 Sea King helicopters)
trained on .45 1911. I have a .45 1911 and I'm pretty good with it. This is my first shotgun though.

Scarab

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Re: Options for installing an UNDER the barrel light...

Post by Synchronizor » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:21 am

Tekrsq is correct that one of the best ways to use a shotgun for HD is to take a fixed position and defend it until help arrives. The strategy has both tactical and legal benefits, and the high-power, low-capacity nature of shotguns makes them an excellent fit for this tactic.
Scarab wrote:OK, so, right or wrong, here was my though process...

The longest possible distance in my house would be about 7 yards. That's a very small distance if you're are suddenly charged by the intruder. AIMING, even with a shotgun, takes time. With a flashlight and a laser I don't need to even aim, just raise the shotgun (if it wasn't already) see the laser dot appear on the intruder's torso and pull the trigger. No need to close an eye and aim down the bead sight.

A laser is an instant indicator of being on target even with both eyes open on no aiming.
I think you're over-estimating the capabilities of a laser, and under-estimating the capabilities of basic sights and good technique.

Lasers aren't "instant". Assuming you have it turned on, you have to find the dot, get it on the target, and keep it there until you pull the trigger. All of that takes time, thought, and concentration. You may think a laser will allow you to put the gun on target without assuming a proper stance, and there is some truth in that, but shooting "from the hip" makes it easier to throw a shot (especially when under stress), and it'll take you longer to recover and make effective follow-up shots. There are also situations where a visible laser is a tactical disadvantage.

The right type of iron sights are very fast to bring on target. If you practice with them, they'll be aligned as quickly as you can assume a shooting stance, and looking and aiming become the same thing - all without actively thinking about it. A laser may seem easier, and it can be an asset, but don't assume it's an "I win" button. Nothing is a substitute for practice, and the rib & front sight combo on the Versa Max Tactical can be a very fast and natural sight system if you put in the time to get familiar with them.

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