Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Tactical, combat, military, law enforcement and home defense use of a Remington 870 shotgun.
Dr. Marneaus
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Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by Dr. Marneaus » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:47 pm

Hi!

Took my new 870 Police Magnum out for a test run this weekend. I was literally just shooting at nothing trying to function test because I had been shooting a rifle at 700 yards.

I loaded up some winchester target load, and fired.

It felt as though the slide would not move, it was only moving a fraction of an inch and then binding up. If i moved it forwards and then backwards a few times, it would release fully and cycle the shell out, and load the next. fire the next one, same thing. Fire the next one, cycles fine, fire the next one, sticks again.

I tried a few things here.

I couldnt tell if the action was binding or if the shell had maybe expanded (I've heard of chambers being out of spec and shells getting stuck, but generally the extractor would rip through the shell base?). Once when it was bound up, i simply applied more force to see if i could pull it out without moving it back forward. I could not. Wiggle it forward and abckward (as if trying to cycle normally) and eventually it lets go. This tells me it's the action, not just a shell expanding in the chamber, right?

It would sometimes go a few shots without binding. I ran 4 rounds of 00 buck through it and none of them stuck.

At this point I was out of time. Headed home.

I have seen some info about the side saddles causing this. I have a Mesa Tactical sureshell whatever thingy on here. I installed it according to instructions. I did not crank down on any of the screws, even though that supposedly doesnt matter because of their stand offs being the correct length. I removed it, but have yet to shoot it. Has anybody else experienced anything like this? Any info or advice for me? Hopefully in the next few days I'll have time to swing out to the desert and run some stuff through it without the shell carrier.

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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by DaveC » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:03 pm

It sounds like you've got a good sense that the action may be binding due to the side saddle. If the screws are too tight, it will cause problems by compressing the receiver too much. I use the Tac-Star version myself, but I imagine that the other versions could cause similar issues.

Good luck with resolving the issue!
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Synchronizor
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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by Synchronizor » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:08 am

It's not your sidesaddle, your chamber, or your action. It's those bloody Winchester target loads over-expanding and sticking in the chamber. Nine times out of ten, whenever someone complains about shells getting stuck after firing, they've been shooting those Winchester shells. If you hadn't mentioned that you were shooting Winchesters, it would have been my first question.

Make sure your chamber is completely clean, Remington coats the chambers and bores on new guns with some kind of grease to protect them from corrosion during shipping and storage. That crud doesn't help function. Then, buy a different brand of shells, and run at least a hundred through your gun to get the chamber broken in properly. Once any rough spots have been worn down, your gun will be more tolerant of garbage ammunition like those Winchesters, but you'd still be better off avoiding them.

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Automag
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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by Automag » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:40 pm

Very well said Synchro! You are indeed the Mentor on this forum, and the fist person i'd ask for advice. I was just now saying the exact same thing on his other thread. Frickin Winchester shells suck!
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Zebra62
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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by Zebra62 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:13 pm

Synchronizor wrote: Make sure your chamber is completely clean, Remington coats the chambers and bores on new guns with some kind of grease to protect them from corrosion during shipping and storage. That crud doesn't help function. Then, buy a different brand of shells, and run at least a hundred through your gun to get the chamber broken in properly. Once any rough spots have been worn down, your gun will be more tolerant of garbage ammunition like those Winchesters, but you'd still be better off avoiding them.
I like to use CRC Brakleen (the RED can, not the Green) It dries fast and clean with no residue. You can pick it up virtually anywhere. Clean your chamber out, let it dry the hit it with some RemOil. Try not to over lubricate as it will collect dust and other stuff and gum up your action again. After all that, take it out and shoot it. There isn't a magic number other than a few hundred rounds needed to break in your 870 and smooth out all all the rough spots.

Go shoot and have fun.
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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by Dr. Marneaus » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:52 pm

Synchronizor wrote:It's not your sidesaddle, your chamber, or your action. It's those bloody Winchester target loads over-expanding and sticking in the chamber. Nine times out of ten, whenever someone complains about shells getting stuck after firing, they've been shooting those Winchester shells. If you hadn't mentioned that you were shooting Winchesters, it would have been my first question.

Make sure your chamber is completely clean, Remington coats the chambers and bores on new guns with some kind of grease to protect them from corrosion during shipping and storage. That crud doesn't help function. Then, buy a different brand of shells, and run at least a hundred through your gun to get the chamber broken in properly. Once any rough spots have been worn down, your gun will be more tolerant of garbage ammunition like those Winchesters, but you'd still be better off avoiding them.

Thanks! I think you're right. Glad to hear its not too uncommon with this ammo. I dunno if you saw my other thread but I was leaning towards this because I had a winchester shell that was fired out of a different shotgun doing the same thing.

I'll hit the range after work today and report back. I have some federal target load, Rio Buck, S&B Buck, Federal Buck, Hornady Buck, Winchester Buck, Rio Slugs and S&B Slugs. Should be a wide enough range to test function haha.

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ponycarman
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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by ponycarman » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:19 pm

The federal bulk pack stuff should perform better. Thats what I've been using and haven't had any issues with it yet. I've heard tons of issues with the Winchester stuff.

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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by Synchronizor » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:13 pm

I use Federal bulk-pack shells as well, for plinking, practice, and non-competitive trap-shooting. They're cheaper than the Winchester target loads in my area, and are much more reliable. Most stores around here don't even bother carrying the Winchesters; Wal-Mart's the only place I've seen them in recent years, and even there they usually just gather dust on the shelf. During the recent ammo buying craze, there would always be an untouched stack of 100-round Winchester "value"-packs sitting on shelves that were otherwise stripped completely bare.

It's worth noting that until your chamber gets at least partially broken-in, you're likely to experience a few stuck shells with any brand of steel-based ammunition - and nearly all shells these days are steel, even if they're brass-colored. Steel-based shells work well enough (if made properly), but they don't cycle nearly as smoothly as genuine brass shells, and they're much less forgiving of rough chambers. Get your chamber properly broken-in though, and this shouldn't be a problem with any half-decent ammo.

However, you may still have the occasional tough extraction when shooting real bottom-dollar shells, even the better ones like the Federals. The reality is that all cheap target loads are manufactured to very low price points, and while some brands are far better than others, there'll always be an occasional bad shell mixed in. But for plinking and light recreational shooting, it's no big deal if you have to rack the slide a little more firmly once every hundred shells or so. For practice drills and training, I'd even consider an occasional, random hang-up to be beneficial.

Dr. Marneaus
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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by Dr. Marneaus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:39 am

Well, you nailed it!

Ran 20ish rounds of 00 bucks through the gun, of several different manufacturers, and had ZERO issues.

Patterned a bunch at 7 yards just for the heck of it.

Ran 6 or 10 rounds of federal target load through it, no issues.

Ran 6 shots of winchester through it, 4 or 5 stucks.


Anyway, gun works fine otherwise! Will put the shell carrier back on and see whats up.

Oh and holy hell, why does this thing beat my cheek up so bad? I feel like i got punched in the face and am honestly worried i'll have a bruise in the morning. i've never experienced that on any other rifle or shotgun i've owned.

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Re: Strange cycling issues. Because of side saddle?

Post by Short Bus » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:06 am

Dr. Marneaus wrote:Oh and holy hell, why does this thing beat my cheek up so bad? I feel like i got punched in the face and am honestly worried i'll have a bruise in the morning. i've never experienced that on any other rifle or shotgun i've owned.
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