12-gauge 00 buckshot ballistics @ 50 yards.

[DaveC]

Some folks in the Southeastern United States may well still hunt deer with buckshot, but I posted this in defensive/tactical/anti-personnel given the overall evaluation and commentary on 50-yard barriers..

50 yards, 12-gauge buckshot from a full choke barrel to get the pellets on a stack of 10% ballistic gel blocks.
From Brass Fetcher. You'll have to be subjected to some annoying commercial advertisement before the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pIuUrjU ... bedded#t=0

[El Bandito]

Informative, thanks!

[Synchronizor]

One unexpected thing I got out of that test is that the pellet velocities had dropped to typical muzzle velocities for pellets from "high-velocity" .410 buckshot shells optimized for the short barrels in .410/.45 Colt revolvers. At those speeds, the pellets have minimal wounding potential relative to a handgun JHP. This is contrary to the beliefs of many who advocate the use of those revolvers for personal defense, and claim that they will blast a permanent, fist-sized tunnel through a torso with buckshot.

[DaveC]

I built my spouse a defensive .410, but it has a 20-inch barrel and is not a gimmicky Taurus or S&W revolver... I still think that with the proliferation of defensive loads in .410 for the Judge/Governor type revolvers that trying 'em out of an actual .410 shotgun barrel might be an interesting exercise.

I guess when time permits, I'll have to contrive some tests of my own...!

With a typical cylinder bore the buckshot pattern is going to be too wide at 30 yards, let alone 50 yards, no?

[Synchronizor]

I built my spouse a defensive .410, but it has a 20-inch barrel and is not a gimmicky Taurus or S&W revolver... I still think that with the proliferation of defensive loads in .410 for the Judge/Governor type revolvers that trying 'em out of an actual .410 shotgun barrel might be an interesting exercise.

I guess when time permits, I'll have to contrive some tests of my own...!

I'd be interested in seeing your test results. The problem I keep seeing with the "high-performance" .410 buckshot loads is extreme pellet deformation. In order to get everything they can out of those laughable revolver barrels and put somewhat-encouraging numbers on the ads and packaging, these things are loaded with very fast-burning powder, and topped with a heavy 4- or 5-pellet stack of large buckshot. When that powder touches off, the acceleration crushes the linear stack of pellets straight back, and they come out of the barrel as flat disks. This is one of the primary reasons that the effective range of buckshot out of the revolvers is so uselessly short.

410 buck.JPG (89.2 KiB) Viewed 6063 times

At very close range they'd do decent damage (they'd still have the same kinetic energy after all, and would probably do more damage to a target than a round ball), but with that short range and lack of consistency, the only half-way plausible alternative to simply loading the revolver with good .45 Colt JHPs falls on its face. You might see better results from a long, smoothbore .410 barrel, but I'd still expect the same pellet deformation. Slugs may be worth trying; .410 slugs are lighter than most effective handgun bullets (usually less than 100 grains), but at least you'd have pretty respectable velocities out of the longer barrel.

Anyway, I tend to knock the .410 as a self-defense chambering almost reflexively these days. I'll admit it beats the heck out of throwing china (as long as you don't think birdshot is the way to load...), but I still think that anyone who can handle these balls-to-the-wall magnum .410 loads from a lightweight plinking shotgun should have no problems controlling non-magnum 20ga shells out of a heavier, gas-operated semi-auto with a good recoil pad.

With a typical cylinder bore the buckshot pattern is going to be too wide at 30 yards, let alone 50 yards, no?

I'm sure it depends heavily on the load, but the tests in the video were performed with a full-choked shotgun (a Mossberg 500) to give the test the best odds. It's actually a pretty interesting idea; I could definitely see a benefit for some to configuring a shotgun for maximum possible effective range with a single buckshot load. I'm pretty sure an attacker wouldn't be any less dead at across-the-room distances, and a shooter who doesn't get a ton of practice wouldn't have to try to fumble through a slug changeover if something needed to be engaged at longer ranges.

[DaveC]

OK. I'll have to get off my couch and go to the range with the Marlin .410 lever-action shotgun. My wife really likes lever guns, and I figured that a .357 might be fairly close at extreme CQB across-the-room distances to a .410.

I do not think .410 slugs are ever a very good idea. I think they weigh something like 85-gr. The payload from a buckshot shell is four or even five [but sometimes just three!] 00 buck pellets at about 1225 to 1300 fps. I agree that they likely flatten out completely as they accelerate through the barrel. Winchester PDX ammo cut to the quick and actually replaced the round shot with pre-flattened discs. We've shot slugs at 50 yards to sight it in, and used the 1/2 to 1/3rd. buck loads at something like 25 yards...

I'll probably have to use water jugs in lieu of the gelatin blocks... No jello here, and I doubt my fridge is big enough!

[DaveC]

Very old, dead thread...

Brass fetcher got 18-in. penetration on a buckshot pellet fired from a .410 shell. So viewed as a smooth-bore musket-type three or four flat discs of lead--a crude "frangible" slug weighing something like, say 210 grains at 1300fps within typical HD across-the-room, down-the-hallway ranges... A bit close to .41 Magnum, no? Albeit a diminutive person who can't effectively shoot the old SFPD .41 Mag revolver should be able to use a long-arm.

I'd still advocate for a 20-gauge, like most people.