Express, tactical or police?

General discussion about Remington 870 shotgun.
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vmax
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Re: Express, tactical or police?

Post by vmax » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:37 am

Kentactic are you saying that you wished you had bought a police 870 even after modding you current express?
Don't buy it if you can't sell it.

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Vitaly
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Re: Express, tactical or police?

Post by Vitaly » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:02 am

Kentactic wrote:
Carlo1137 wrote:There is no difference between an Express and and 870P except for 3 tiny parts and the finish and furniture. That's it. That was Remington marketing and words stamped on the receiver.

These are the ONLY internal parts that are different between the Express and the Police:
1. The trigger housing on the Police is pressed metal, that on the Express is polymer - advantage Express, as the polymer trigger housing is known to be more durable (ask any Remington armorer).

2. The extractor on the Police is forged, the Express is MIM. Upgrade the extractor: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1074 ... /EXTRACTOR Cost $14.99 (I always replace the extractor, but have never seen a MIM extractor break on an Express).

3. The Police has a stronger carrier dog follower spring than the Express. This is also an easily upgrade: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1076 ... H-SPRINGIt is listed as a carrier latch spring for the 1100 and 11-87, but this is the correct spring used in the Police. Cost $4.84 The interesting thing is that Remington charges the same for either spring (the P is black, and that is the only way to tell them apart). So why not use the same spring in both guns? Marketing.

4. The Police uses a stronger magazine spring on the 6+1 versions (I believe that both 4+1 versions now use the same spring). Purchase a new spring from Wolff: http://www.gunsprings.com/Rifles%20%26% ... dID216#606 Cost $8.99

5. Sear spring - As of several years ago both versions now use the identical spring (the one from the Express).

Those are the only differences that matter between the Express and the Police; the rest is simply marketing. Most of the custom 870 builders, such as Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, and AI&P Tactical use the 870 Express platform because it is basically the same gun at a lower cost".

Hope this helps! :D

Ive done all the parts upgrades but you can still be a blind guy and feel that its an Express. There is a difference. the matte finnish is horrific in wet conditions, and the fitting of parts is poor. the guns just not smooth even after all the many rounds ive put through it. Its smoother, but it will always be an Express. If your like me and have very few guns you expect to work every time, then spending a few extra bucks is the way to go.
Kentactic, you can improve fitting by polishing moving parts.
http://www.Rem870.com - Blog about the Remington 870 Shotgun

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Synchronizor
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Re: Express, tactical or police?

Post by Synchronizor » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:11 am

Carlo1137 wrote:I guess the buyer will have to decide for him self, but I have had an express tactical side by side with the 870 police and I did not notice any difference in smoothness in racking the slides. The tactical express I own now is smooth as glass. Given its only for HD, it works good for me, I do take it out to shoot, but I always clean it after I'm done shooting. You are right about the finish being crappy, but if its for HD its fine and I don't see what you mean about reliability issue. Has your 870 failed you? if so, can you please tell me how it failed with proper care and maintenance? If the buyer decides that he is also going to duck hunt, deer hunt or hunt some kind of game animal with his 870, then buy a 870 wing master since the blueing finish would work better. Just my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt.
I second this.

The Express is what it is: a budget gun. That's not a bad thing, it's a model meant to meet the needs and price point of a certain market. You get what you pay for, and what you don't pay for with an Express is fancy finishing or a lot of human attention/inspection during production. Mechanically, it's the same as any other 870. Like Carlo1137 said, a lot of quality tactical 870 builders start with Express guns and parts since they're replacing internals and doing their own fitting & finishing anyway.

My 870 (the receiver at least, other parts change depending on the build) started out as an Express, and it's been a wonderful gun. When I bought it, I was a poor college student who had just gotten a rare bit of extra money. Following a couple incidents on the college campus I worked at (gun-free zones always work out so well, don't they?), I was looking for a functional, versatile shotgun that would get the job done for HD, but that I could later upgrade into something really nice. Guess what the fellow at the gun counter recommend? The rest is history.

The Express finish gets a lot of flack, and it is pretty basic, but despite some harsh opinions, it's not going to just rust away if you look at it cross-eyed. No matter what finish a gun has, it's only as good as the person caring for it; if you do your part, it'll stand up to quite a bit. I'll probably have my receiver and an armful of other parts parkerized someday, so everything matches. So far though, that "cheap" finish hasn't given me enough trouble to warrant spending the money, even in some pretty tough conditions.

If you're set on building a full-on parkerized, tricked-out tactical 870, and you have the money to spend initially, a Police model is a good place to start. If you're in the same place I was back then, looking for a budget-friendly HD or hunting gun that you will upgrade over time, and you don't mind doing a little work to smooth out some rough spots and upgrade some internals, you're not going to cripple yourself by starting with an Express.

If you do start with an Express, I would recommend one that comes from the factory with a magazine extension, so you get a barrel with the ball detent on the ring and a magazine tube you won't have to cut on. Take the time in the store to look the gun over; check the part fit and look for manufacturing defects (you're paying for less inspection, remember, so do some yourself). The action will get smoother as you work on it and wear it in.

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Carlo1137
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Re: Express, tactical or police?

Post by Carlo1137 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:15 am

How many moving parts are there on an 870? Lol
I can only think of the bolt and the rods on the front grips.. I'm a forgetting something else? :?: :?:
BETTER TO BE JUDGED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6

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Vitaly
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Re: Express, tactical or police?

Post by Vitaly » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:14 pm

Carlo1137 wrote:How many moving parts are there on an 870? Lol
I can only think of the bolt and the rods on the front grips.. I'm a forgetting something else? :?: :?:
Yes, you are right :)
http://www.Rem870.com - Blog about the Remington 870 Shotgun

Kentactic
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Re: Express, tactical or police?

Post by Kentactic » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:27 pm

Carlo1137 wrote:
Kentactic wrote:
Carlo1137 wrote:There is no difference between an Express and and 870P except for 3 tiny parts and the finish and furniture. That's it. That was Remington marketing and words stamped on the receiver.

These are the ONLY internal parts that are different between the Express and the Police:
1. The trigger housing on the Police is pressed metal, that on the Express is polymer - advantage Express, as the polymer trigger housing is known to be more durable (ask any Remington armorer).

2. The extractor on the Police is forged, the Express is MIM. Upgrade the extractor: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1074 ... /EXTRACTOR Cost $14.99 (I always replace the extractor, but have never seen a MIM extractor break on an Express).

3. The Police has a stronger carrier dog follower spring than the Express. This is also an easily upgrade: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1076 ... H-SPRINGIt is listed as a carrier latch spring for the 1100 and 11-87, but this is the correct spring used in the Police. Cost $4.84 The interesting thing is that Remington charges the same for either spring (the P is black, and that is the only way to tell them apart). So why not use the same spring in both guns? Marketing.

4. The Police uses a stronger magazine spring on the 6+1 versions (I believe that both 4+1 versions now use the same spring). Purchase a new spring from Wolff: http://www.gunsprings.com/Rifles%20%26% ... dID216#606 Cost $8.99

5. Sear spring - As of several years ago both versions now use the identical spring (the one from the Express).

Those are the only differences that matter between the Express and the Police; the rest is simply marketing. Most of the custom 870 builders, such as Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, and AI&P Tactical use the 870 Express platform because it is basically the same gun at a lower cost".

Hope this helps! :D

Ive done all the parts upgrades but you can still be a blind guy and feel that its an Express. There is a difference. the matte finnish is horrific in wet conditions, and the fitting of parts is poor. the guns just not smooth even after all the many rounds ive put through it. Its smoother, but it will always be an Express. If your like me and have very few guns you expect to work every time, then spending a few extra bucks is the way to go.
I guess the buyer will have to decide for him self, but I have had an express tactical side by side with the 870 police and I did not notice any difference in smoothness in racking the slides. The tactical express I own now is smooth as glass. Given its only for HD, it works good for me, I do take it out to shoot, but I always clean it after I'm done shooting. You are right about the finish being crappy, but if its for HD its fine and I don't see what you mean about reliability issue. Has your 870 failed you? if so, can you please tell me how it failed with proper care and maintenance? If the buyer decides that he is also going to duck hunt, deer hunt or hunt some kind of game animal with his 870, then buy a 870 wing master since the blueing finish would work better. Just my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt.
Yes i always cleam my guns after ever use. Its my HD shotgun but i train with it in full retard gear like im going to war. Ive hand damp hands after a shower and moved my gun. The next day there was a rusty hand print. Ive yet to use the gun in the rain but i know lots of wd40 before hand and lots of cleaning afterwards will be involved. My 870 has failed me in every way a pump shotgun can. Failure to eject, failure to extract, failure to eject from the magtube not short stroke related etc. When you use the Express as hard as i don and expect petfection you quickly see what it lacks. Ive since corrected any reliability issues. Ive never owned a police model but i know its not worse then the Express.

Sorry for any errors im on my phone.

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