Uh oh! Remington 870 used in Navy Yard Shooting

[xridgelinerx]

Progressive gun grabbers were so quick to dance in the blood of victims and get the "assault rifles" (what ever they are) banned, they didn't bother to wait and check the accuracy of the reports. Either that or they just made it up like they usually do. Turns out the sick A-hole who shot up the Washington Navy Yard didn't have an AR-15.

What did he have? A powerful and deadly Remington 870. Website Mail Online shockingly reports the weapon "could shoot 6 rounds without reloading."

Oh my God, six rounds. Nobody needs such a weapon for hunting. They should be banned. (sarcasm off)

Anybody expect any shotgun fallout from this tragic event?

[dharbert]

He was just doing like Joe Biden said. Get yourself a shotgun and fire two blasts, or in this case, multiple blasts.

</sarcasm>

Yes, the anti-gun folks went nuts printing front-page stories about the AR-15 that was used (that didn't exist). And that idiot Piers Morgan devoted his entire show ranting about assault weapons, subjecting viewers to mis-information. Now I guess they will want to ban every type of firearm.

One of these days they will realize that guns don't kill people, people kill people. By all accounts the guy was mentally unstable. It wouldn't have mattered if he didn't even have access to a gun, he would have used something else.

[navyshooter]

CNN was calling it an AR-15 Shotgun...........Don't tell me the press made a mistake.

[stratotrev]

Funny, I was literally just reading this as a story came on BBC news talking about how a bunch of anti gun rights groups here in the U.S. "hit the streets" today to protest "assault weapons", specifically AR-15s in the wake of the Navy yard shooting. The idiocy just continues to roll down special street even after factual information has been presented (Where's the face palm smiley when you need him).

[DaveC]

Sadly, the move to gut the Second Amendment relies on a propaganda campaign that simply takes all of the most insane, horrific mass-murders of late, and jumbles them into a pre-concieved "solution" to America's indiscriminate psychotic murderer problem: "It is not the numbers of murderous mad people and mental health diagnosis that's at issue, why, its ACCESS to GUNS."

The sociopath legally purchased a Rem. 870 shotgun while undergoing therapy for really serious mental illnesses. No one wanted to commit the guy because it would screw up his life and he'd lose his security-clearance and thus his contractor job... Some favor these folks did, no? He may have used his 870 to shoot some guards and take their M4s [not ARs mind you...] or at least one such carbine, and a high-capacity handgun, since that is what guards carry these days, and used those. We won't know for a while.

I've yet to see any news analysis that simply suggests that mass-murderers/so-called ''spree killers" use whatever firearm they have and that the data would simply reflect what guns Americans have been and continue to buy: AR-15s... Something like 4 million sold.... Glock handguns, ubiquitous these days... I think I'm one of the few firearm owners in the nation that doesn't have a Glock pistol, and I had one for a couple decades there before I sold it. Remington 870? Well, sure, there are well over 10 million at this point and they're built to keep running...

[stratotrev]

You bring very good and valid points and also piqued my curiosity some regarding something you mentioned. I guess I assumed being just a guard at a Navy yard they would be merely carrying M-9s just like we do at the Air Force bases. All of our base security/law enforcement only carry M-9s, while the priority restricted areas have security that carry M-4/203 and M-9s and heavies. Places such as the weapons storage area and the launch facilities. I guess my thought process was based on the fact that our Security/Law Enforcement only carry M9s while guarding a nuke base, why would they have anything more to guard a ship yard? But I'm curious now and I may be overlooking some crucial step in their security process. Being Air Force SF, I know how we roll, but not necessarily any one else. Our Security Forces school shares the schoolhouse with the Navy MA school, and I have a couple friends that taught at the MA school years ago. I may inquire of them out of curiosity. And as you stated will await further details surely to come.

[DaveC]

I was misled by the media along with everyone else... It would appear that this psycopath murdered all the victims with a Remington 870 shogun he bough 48 hours earlier... He lifted a semi-auto handgun [likely as not a Beretta M9] from a guard. No "assault weapon" to speak of. There are bizarre reports that "pieces" of the stock were missing--whatever that means -- and supposedly he carved "It is better this way" someplace on the stock furniture... No images of course, just hearsay.

Just goes to show that a determined criminal threat can do a lot of damage with anything... Box cutters and pepper gas to storm a plane cockpit and crash it into a large building, simple but large bombs in a rental truck with the fuse lit and calmly walk away, a can of gasoline 'accelerant' and a match, a brace of handguns... You name it...

One of the worst such acts occurred in South Korea in the early 1980s when a crazed police officer with an M2 carbine, hand grenades, and a knife attacked remote towns literally going door to door. There are some really sick people out there. Take care!

[stratotrev]

I hadn't heard that info about the shooter, and as for the pieces of stock missing, that seems a bit odd. I suppose some pictures (that we'll never see most likely) would clear that up. I know that perception in those types of situations can be misguided or unclear so I'm supposing it could be just that, or possibly someone that really doesn't know their way around a weapon. At this point we may never understand or know the truth.

You make an extremely good point about a determined criminal threat. Incidences surely show that a largely heinous act can be completed with whatever someone is motivated enough to carry out the task with. A lot of us NCOs talk about this very subject often at the Squadron, regarding how someone with a single weapon or plan can be very effective based on planning and shear will. I'm kind of an old gun nut, have a few 1873 single action army revolvers, and a couple Schofield revolvers that I do some single action shooting with, and in general a lot of shooting. Based on my familiarness and skill (shooting/reloading) with these weapons, theoretically I could carry out just as much havoc with one or a couple of these antiquated 1800's revolvers. Something a large bit of the public would have a hard time believing, understanding, and swallowing being that they are not semi-auto and are not assault weapons. Now obviously I would never consider such a thing being that I've dedicated my entire adult life to not only the military, but much of that time in law enforcement. It's mostly a topic we discuss frequently, especially being law enforcement, mainly to point out it's not necessarily the weapon one utilizes but the manner in which they go about it.

[DaveC]

I hear that... I do cowboy action shooting and there's some guys from someplace near Corpus Christi that always win. These guys are fast. We kid them that full auto is not allowed by the SASS, as a joke commentary on their skill, but let me just say these guys would be really dangerous with their dated equipment and weapons if it came to that...

I used to teach in deep South Texas across the river from the cartel war in Mexico. There are no second amendment rights in that nation, which has been averse to private ownership of firearms from the dictatorship of Porfirio Diaz if not before... It is a really unpleasant picture let's just say. Right now there are communities forming vigilante "public constabulary" squads to take on corrupt and often incompetent law enforcement and the thugs hired guns. Some of these criminal organizations like the notorious Zetas and the Caballeros Templarios in Michoacan are even forcibly inducting young people into their ranks [think "child soldiers"]. Anyhow, some of these groups have met with success only to be assailed by the Mexican state... This creates a perception that the state police are more concerned about private citizens than the "narcos."

I'm old enough to remember the Stockton, California massacre where a deranged racist with a kalashnikov shot up a bunch of little kids at the school he'd gone to because they were Vietnamese. There are lots of similar attacks on vulnerable, defenseless people all over the world. Not too many years ago some psycho in Germany got his policeman father's pistol and murdered a bunch of people. Aparrently the sicko who killed all those little kids in Connecticut actually admired the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Brevik and actually wanted to emulate him! These literally senseless acts really never lose their capability to shock... They are constantly used by folks who want to curtail our civil and political rights.

[stratotrev]

Exactly, and I'm mediocre at best. A lot of those SASS guys I've seen shoot and compete are seriously dangerous with those old weapons. I laugh and think about those guys every time someone starts blabbing about ARs and AKs and whatever else and think about how a lot of those guys shoot faster and more accurate with those weapons than a lot of the military guys I work with. Obviously keeping in mind the vastly different weapon systems but still, good for a little chuckle. I wouldn't want to be across the trenches from a lot of those guys if you know what I mean.

The trouble that has been going on in Mexico for years and the current situation aren't good at all. I've read plenty about exactly what you're talking about and it's a big mess that's only going to get bigger. We are constantly getting intel reports about the intermixed activity between local populaces, organizations, and so called law enforcement from anti terrorism and I have to say from the military's point of view the lines seem as though they're becoming more and more blurred. They have a war going on down there that is out of control, largely because it's pretty difficult to know who's in control, if anyone is in control for that matter. It's gotten bad enough that the DOD and DOS have placed a complete ban on any and all travel to Mexico for all military personnel barring official duty. And even then, we have to have explicit permission to travel from the SOUTHCOM Commander and have an escort. I think that pretty much says it.


I've read about some of the other cases you were talking about also, and of course I know about the more recent events. I agree there surely is no lack of shock factor, and with it no lack of people ready and willing to strip us of our rights as a result.